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Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

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Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#211

I wrote a similar thread a while back while helping my 70-year old neighbour: https://twitter.com/ianmiell/status/1299742361854054401 """One example of the insanity: "Enter mobile number to register" OK, 0793... "You already have an account with that number" "Enter mobile number to get recovery details" OK, 0793... "You do not have an account with that number" Turns out you have to put 44793..."""

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Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#213
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not suggesting that online, self-serve shouldn't exist. I am not even suggesting that we shouldn't encourage them. I am merely pointing out that we can't implement those _first_ at what will inevitably be the expense of in-person services where needed. Develop the paper forms. Figure out what needs an gov't employee or other official to help with the necessary steps. _Then_ offer complementary self-serve options…

In-person doesn't mean that paper forms are required. Self-service kiosks are a perfectly reasonable way to support in-person needs, and that way all the information will flow into the system the same way: digitally. It's 2021. Why are we still talking about paper forms for government functions?

>In-person doesn't mean that paper forms are required.

Agreed. All I am really advocating for is that we don't expect people to have sign into a website from a computer/phone at home. Some people don't have that luxury.

> Self-service kiosks are a perfectly reasonable way to support in-person needs

That isn't true. A very significant portion of the population needs help with these systems.

Hell, I had to order a hamburger from a fast food restaurant one time, and I was intimidated and confused, (I at least got my food eventually). Most the customers who came in tried to avoid the system and went straight to the cashier.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government services are available offline or via phone as well. The government has some of the strictest accessibility requirements for everything they do. It’s one of the reasons that it’s so expensive to roll out new government services. People are directed to the online versions first because it’s fastest for everyone involved. We should be pushing everyone toward efficient online self-service first, while leaving…

In the US, I was in a government office a few days ago because I was told that if instead of uploaded documents via a website and waiting 10-45 days to have them reviewed I could go into a local office and provide these documents and they would review them on-site. So I set off on a 35 minute drive to the local office. While the wait times were shorter in the physical building I had to chuckle when I thought they wer…

Be glad they don't allow emailing important documents, they certainly wouldn't encrypt them if they did.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#215
post #48

Unpopular opinion: I think government services and offices should remain offline-first forever. They should offer online equivalents, but they should never assume or require digital adoption. I think this has two big benefits: - Minor point: Greater resilience to downtime, interruptions to service - Major point: a check on becoming a faceless entity with no exposure to the public. Think Google or FB if you get flagge…

Agreed , it's not a bad idea to always have an offline backup system just in case. Like if you're filing for unemployment, you can only do that via the government, you can't just go to a different unemployment office. So having a way to send in the form manually is always a surefire thing. Even if it just gets digitized later, that's more than enough to prevent something like an oracle system's downtime stopping hundreds of thousands of people filing for benefits

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#216
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US prison system is all about punishment not rehabilitation. Theres a very strong “lock them up and throw away the key” mentality in many Americans view of justice.

The US prison system is about indifference and more like factory farming than inflicting punishment -- the negative effects are mostly a byproduct of high volume and costs. I got really into this issue maybe two years ago, and it's been pretty sickening to observe. Things like multiple states denying surgeries based on alleged "one good eye" policies. Replacing in-person visits with virtual ones. Sure, there's profit…

The 20 year minimum penalty is the only thing keeping poor people from coming in the houses of privileged people.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unpopular opinion: I think government services and offices should remain offline-first forever. They should offer online equivalents, but they should never assume or require digital adoption. The converse is that the government should provide free internet access to all citizens and immigrants, IF that is the primary way to communicate with the govt. I also reject that "mail is an option" when mail takes 6-8 weeks…

Also there should be programs to re-integrate prisoners after incarceration, or just generally give them better access to be able to keep up with the outside world.

There should also be a lot less carcerial punishment. We overuse the prison system. Far too much of that is due to either minimum sentencing laws the judges and even prosecutors tend to hate and to line the pockets of private prisons or private corporations servicing public prisons and inmates.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#218
post #48

Unpopular opinion: I think government services and offices should remain offline-first forever. They should offer online equivalents, but they should never assume or require digital adoption. I think this has two big benefits: - Minor point: Greater resilience to downtime, interruptions to service - Major point: a check on becoming a faceless entity with no exposure to the public. Think Google or FB if you get flagge…

Government services are available offline or via phone as well. The government has some of the strictest accessibility requirements for everything they do. It’s one of the reasons that it’s so expensive to roll out new government services. People are directed to the online versions first because it’s fastest for everyone involved. We should be pushing everyone toward efficient online self-service first, while leaving…

Ah, yes... they’re available, they say.

Reminds me of this scene from Hitchhikers:

—————-

“But Mr. Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months.”

“Oh yes, well, as soon as I heard I went straight round to see them, yesterday afternoon. You hadn’t exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them, had you? I mean, like actually telling anybody or anything.”

“But the plans were on display…”

“On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them.”

“That’s the display department.”

“With a flashlight.”

“Ah, well, the lights had probably gone.”

“So had the stairs.”

“But look, you found the notice, didn’t you?”

“Yes,” said Arthur, “yes I did. It was on display in the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying ‘Beware of the Leopard.’”

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#219
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even appliance computers are not immune to this. Had an elderly neighbour asking for help after struggling to forward a message sent by one contact on whatsapp to another contact on facebook. Having to explain: > Well there's usually an icon that looks like this, and sometimes it will bring up the android share menu, but sometimes it opens up something that only shows you contact in that app, and having someone on fa…

> Well there's usually an icon that looks like this, and sometimes it will bring up the android share menu, but sometimes it opens up something that only shows you contact in that app, and having someone on facebook is not the same as on whatsapp. Back in my day, Apple had something called the Human Interface Guidelines and they adhered to them religiously, and IMHO it made computing a lot more approachable for a neo…

besides some apps that do weird stuff, there is always a button to open settings, isn't there? Or is that just android?

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the goal for the prison system is to rehabilitate the inmates, then indeed it failed him. But if the goal of the prison system is to punish the inmates, then it has achieved its goal and even continue to punish him long after he served his time.

The problem is of course that you want both. First you want to punish them so they, and others, are not motivated to do such a crime again. But at the same time, you want them to go out as a better person than they went in (else there is no point in releasing them). Punishing people after their release is not benefitting anyone.

Dozens of studies show that punishment is barely a motivation. The only way of making a society more secure is to prevent people stepping into the criminal world in the first place. Education, integration etc. And if they still do, as much effort must be taken to let them integrate back into society as soon and smooth as possible.
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