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Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

face2faceafrica.com

201–210 of 437 posts

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#201
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free trade is usually done on a tit-for-tat basis. I think the GP is saying they should allow protectionist policies without "tatting".

This is effectively how the US built up the industries of Japan, Taiwan and South Korea. The reason these countries were allowed to do it where others are not was because the US wanted strategically placed powerful allies in the region. There probably wouldn't be a Japanese electronics/car industry, for instance, if the Soviets hadn't spooked the the US in the 40s.

The US built those industries only in the same sense that they built Germany's.

Japan's industrial base was built before the 40s, with an extensive domestic supply of machine tools and industrial equipment, rail infrastructure, and finished manufactured goods. Or else who do you think was building the planes, ships, and submarines that the allies were fighting on the Pacific front? Their industries were temporarily damaged by the war but it's no surprise that they'd be back to building cars within a couple decades.

They, rather than the US, were the ones who built up much of the initial industrial base of Taiwan and Korea, as part of their own colonization efforts. Not out of so much benevolence, of course.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#202
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's actually a worldwide shortage of cocoa, it's apparently not that simple.

Due to COVID yes, but there are shortages of everything right now - cocoa isn’t unique in any way in that regard

... except it's actually relevant to the thread's point about exercising greater control over cocoa

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law is threatening fines if you exceed the speed limit. By that logic. Are allowed to break the law? Are you not?

My landlord raised my rent this year. Are they not allowing me to live in my apartment?

You're not allowed to break the speed limit even if you pay the fine. You are allowed to live in your apartment if you pay the demanded rent.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#204
post #164
post #65

Divine Chocolate is owned by Ghanaian cacao farmer: https://www.divinechocolate.com/products A much better model than the Fairtrade scam by which white-savior consultants jet off to poor countries to lecture locals whose backs their fat salaries are extracted off.

How i fairtrade a scam? Please be aware that the market of cocoa is not an easy one and not very transparent. The Dutch TV maker Teun van der Keuken was devastated by what he saw in Ivory Coast with a lot of child slavery going on. He started his own slavefree brand Tony Chocolonely, but even they have to admit they can not guarantee it is slavefree made, they can only strive for that. By the way, the people from Nes…

I didn't realize Tony Chocolonely was intended to be a slave free brand, I had bought it in Europe thinking it had a hilarious name and large size - the background of traditional brands sold in the US sounds horrific if he decided to make his own company based on what he saw, which haven't even penetrated our domestic market.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#205
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Due to COVID yes, but there are shortages of everything right now - cocoa isn’t unique in any way in that regard

... except it's actually relevant to the thread's point about exercising greater control over cocoa

The above was in a response saying they could take 20 years to invest in cocoa elsewhere - the shortage is very temporary in comparison

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#206
post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The specific ownership and the details are irrelevant, what matters is that a large chunk of their profits is extracted out of the country and doesn't get reinvested.

Thats not how the economy works. Walmart profits don't get "invested" in the States. They get invested into Walmart. The wages and taxes those wages fuel always gets applied locally. Nothing is being "extracted". Thats just nationalist bullshit used to fuel protectionism.

AFAIU, neither wages nor investments count as profits - those are paid to owners / shareholders.

As far as returning the earnings to workers and local economy via taxes - yes there are expenses, you can't take 100% of income as profits, but there is a lot of leeway to direct the funds pretty much wherever the company chooses. Corporate headquarters in tax friendly countries are popular for a reason.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#207
post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The top management for sure is French/German/Belgian. At least big chunks of it. And the owners (individuals/companies) are French/German/Belgian. If push comes to shove, they will for sure prioritize French/German/Belgian interests. Can't really blame them but strategically it's not a position you want to be in, looking at it from the other side.

Yep. The story about large corporations being totally nationeless is a pure fantasy. For example, just a couple years ago Fiat-Chrystler decided to move production from one of its best factories in Poland to one of its worst (in terms of quality and costs per unit), located in Italy. It made zero sense for the business and was only made as a favor to Italian politicians. In more general sense, all global companies ha…

> It made zero sense for the business

No, it makes perfect sense when you factor in that FIAT/FCA/Stellantis was and is the receiver of massive subsidies, in various guises, from the Italian state. Losing those would be more harmful to the business than losing any foreign factory (with the exception of US ones, which were also beneficiaries of massive state support). FCA stopped being a "national champion" ages ago, they are just a hardened global business now; they just know which side their bread is buttered.

> They expand to other countries mostly as a cost-saving measure and they have zero loyalty to them

Believe me, they have zero loyalty to "the motherland" too. Many of them have long relocated their HQ too, for fiscal reasons. FCA/Stellantis, for example, is now based in Amsterdam. The chance that they'll ever expand again their manufacturing bases in Italy or France is minimal.

Honestly, the issue is that national champions don't exist anymore. Greed-is-good is all that matters.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So much like we allow children time to learn in school before we expect them to compete in the job market, we should allow developing countries to employ protectionistic policies This sounds a bit paternalistic and condescending. I guess that first and foremost the "first world" should stop financing horrible dictatorships and wars in the ex-colonies. That would be a good, honest start.

> should stop financing horrible dictatorships When you do that and even take down the dictator (Gadafi), you end up with a worse government, or no government at all. We can all agree Saddam Hussein was a horrible dictator supported by the US, look at Iraq now, is it better off without Saddam? There is no clear cut, and it seems like whatever the west is doing or abstaining from doing it's going to attract hate. We a…

> We all hate that the Saudis are free to be horrible, but what is the alternative? A new Iraq?

That's a false dichotomy. I think that many people who oppose the war in Yemen would settle for an end to military support and arms sales to Saudi Arabia, and possibly other economic sanctions.

Whether that would lead to a positive outcome for Yemen, though, is another question, and highlights your point about the problems of abstaining.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#209
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I satisfy my chocolate cravings with chocolate from fairafric now. Chocolate produced all the way from the tree to packaged chocolate bars in Ghana. They ran a couple kickstarter projects to get going. It's excellent chocolate too! At least the dark variants, which are the only ones I care about. https://fairafric.com/en/home/

Very cool. Just note (since it's on topic here) that their team is mostly German, not from Ghana https://fairafric.com/team/

True. However, they seem to be working hard – and with some success, I believe – at transferring ownership and responsibility to their partners in Ghana.

Re: Ghana will no longer sell cocoa to Switzerland

#210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My landlord raised my rent this year. Are they not allowing me to live in my apartment?

Are you with a straight face equating consequences of breaking the law (fines and jailtime) with paying rent?

No, I'm making it obvious that collecting fees does not constitute forcing someone to do something.
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