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Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

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Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#171

Post by soneil »

trymas wrote: post #18

Clearly wherever this is (US?) prisons are not about rehabilitation and inclusion back into society. Weren't there any classes? Books? Library? Computer rooms? It's complete failure of a justice system if person comes out of prison like from a time capsule. IMHO it may just increase recidivism - what can a person do in a "free" world if he/she were not let to know about the world outside prison walls?

I'm less convinced it's a failure of the system, but more an expectation of the system.

Just look at the replies on the twitter post. They amount to "shouldn't have done the crime then". Get raped/attacked in prison? Whoops, shouldn't have done the crime then. Released unprepared and institutionalized after 3 decades in prison? Whoops, shouldn't have done the crime then.

I strongly suspect there's a lot less interest in rehabilitation than we like to think. Being let down by a profit-driven incarceration system is only one facet of this.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#172

Post by jimmaswell »

kyooyk wrote: post #113

I really think the point is not how long it might take someone to learn how to use tools, but the impacts of prison. I work with these folks through my company to help them become employed upon release. A few things, it is astounding but believable that when people are released they enter a world that is entirely unknown to them. Not only technology but their relationships and neighborhoods are completely different.…

Shawshank Redemption did a great job showing a lot of this.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#173

Post by duckfang »

cratermoon wrote: post #153
duckfang wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Unpopular opinion: I think government services and offices should remain offline-first forever. They should offer online equivalents, but they should never assume or require digital adoption. The converse is that the government should provide free internet access to all citizens and immigrants, IF that is the primary way to communicate with the govt. I also reject that "mail is an option" when mail takes 6-8 weeks…

Also there should be programs to re-integrate prisoners after incarceration, or just generally give them better access to be able to keep up with the outside world.

Absolutely. But I'm also a realist that realizes that States have de-prioritized Covid vaccines purely because of optics placed above public health.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-local-correspondents/andr...

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta...

Because of that, any plans that try to to help everyone MUST have no exceptions for offenders. In that way, it would have a better chance to pass since it doesn't directly call out offenders.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#174

Post by [deleted] »

Farbklex wrote: post #7

In contrast, I am sure we all know some older people who were not in prisson for the past 30 years and still don't know how to write an email, what a zoom call is or when it's appropriate to double-click vs single click items on a computer. I know people in their 50s who pretend that "they don't need this technology" or "I can just go to the bank if I need something". Sure, if you're in your 80s you might want to dod…

[deleted]

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#175

Post by pas »

Verdex wrote: post #128
pas wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get digitally signed PDFs from service providers each month, similarly from various gov agencies. Sure, there are still a lot of people who simply isn't comfortable handling this, and for them send them printed versions. Auditors and reporters should audit the end-result, not look at paper baskets. We already know "oops liberty not found" happens in a lot of cases yet the powers that be does nothing. (Because it ca…

> Auditors and reporters should audit the end-result I mean, sure. It's just that it's really hard to know how we got to any given end-result. Hey, we see a guy who is really having problems getting services for his kids from the state. Investigation time! Oh, it turns out he's got a bunch of money but he just doesn't want to spend it on his kids. So the reason why he's not getting the services is legit. MEANWHILE A…

This seems to be some kind of epicycles argument. :)

Paper is no different from digital documents when it comes to shady government business. It's just as likely for said magical auditors to find printed copies, email attachments, missing reports, missing data, misplaced data, forgotten backups, and so on. (Have I mentioned the tendency of digital things to be easy to get copied? Whistleblowers? Also I want to mention just to be redundant: backups!)

Audits are conducted based on processes. If the process is so lax that it does not mandate adequate records keeping then that problem needs fixing. And ... reporters write about this all the time, paper or not, it doesn't matter.

Just look at how the ATF's National Trace Center (the federal gun database) is still paper based to protect privacy. (To protect against a government overreach.)

"Interestingly" other special interest groups were less successful in keeping their records out of searchable databases.

If someone is not getting the money they are allocated by law, they usually sue. In the trial the plaintiff presents the evidence (documents in whatever form) that support (prove) that they are due whatever money they are not getting. Then it's the government's responsibility to contest that, show the problem with the argument, or show some document that changes the outcome of the assessment.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#176

Post by nickysielicki »

jimmaswell wrote: post #168
nickysielicki wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My drivers license expires later this year, which is the first time that I have ever needed to renew it. Due to COVID, my license could be renewed online. I did it last night. The problem? I couldn’t update any of my info from when I was 16 unless I went in person. What this ultimately means is that I will be 34 when this new license expires, using a baby faced teenage photo from 18 years prior, with physical descrip…

Was it not an option to go in person?

No, I could have gone in-person if I wanted. But who wants to take an hour out of their day to go to the DMV? What do I care if my government-issued ID is inaccurate? That's their problem.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#177

Post by gambler »

npteljes wrote: post #105
Farbklex wrote: post #7

In contrast, I am sure we all know some older people who were not in prisson for the past 30 years and still don't know how to write an email, what a zoom call is or when it's appropriate to double-click vs single click items on a computer. I know people in their 50s who pretend that "they don't need this technology" or "I can just go to the bank if I need something". Sure, if you're in your 80s you might want to dod…

>ffs sit down and learn the in-depth tools and tricks in the tools over the span of two weekends Even IT people don't know their tools as much as I'd like them to. Taking time out like this, to get to know the tools, is a worthy effort for all.

Very few tools designed today have any features that facilitate learning. Developers don't understand how learning works and don't really care. Operating systems mostly washed their hands of this issue as well. It's a mess.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#178

Post by throwawayboise »

taxidump wrote: post #142
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government services are available offline or via phone as well. The government has some of the strictest accessibility requirements for everything they do. It’s one of the reasons that it’s so expensive to roll out new government services. People are directed to the online versions first because it’s fastest for everyone involved. We should be pushing everyone toward efficient online self-service first, while leaving…

In the US, I was in a government office a few days ago because I was told that if instead of uploaded documents via a website and waiting 10-45 days to have them reviewed I could go into a local office and provide these documents and they would review them on-site. So I set off on a 35 minute drive to the local office. While the wait times were shorter in the physical building I had to chuckle when I thought they wer…

I've had this experience with better results. I had a tax issue that I tried to resolve via phone, email, and paper mail for over a year. Finally went to the local office and they resolved it on the spot in 10 minutes.

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#179

Post by [deleted] »

nickysielicki wrote: post #176
jimmaswell wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it not an option to go in person?

No, I could have gone in-person if I wanted. But who wants to take an hour out of their day to go to the DMV? What do I care if my government-issued ID is inaccurate? That's their problem.

[deleted]

Re: Out of prison after 30 years and people telling him to find forms on the web

#180

Post by lolsal »

maxerickson wrote: post #87
lolsal wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I make an error, I eat it. If the banker makes an error, they eat it, or at least you have some ground to stand on.

The app for my bank account lets me view balances (and some other info), transfer funds between my subaccounts (for free), and deposit checks. There's not functionality in there to shoot myself in the foot.

Keep trying, you'll find it.
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