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A new moralism is gripping the literary world

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Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#101

Post by shuetr »

dantillberg wrote: post #46
karaterobot wrote: post #8

This article is ridiculous. The current wave of book burning, censorship and denunciation is completely different from previous ones, because I support the positions of the mob. I know that this wave of book burnings, censorship and denunciation will lead to a brighter tomorrow. I should point out that I don't support 100% of the positions of the mob, but I won't say which ones I disagree with because I don't want to…

This line of thinking has me gravely concerned for the future of liberal democracy. I don't know where parent lives in the world, but from my perspective in the United States, I deeply fear that there are many Americans who would support an anti-democratic coup (or mob) in a heartbeat so long as it aligned with enough of their political sentiments. Edit: maybe parent is a little too-secretly sarcastic, but even so I…

When the entire tech industry, the one that controls all of the data people see, openly admits to ensuring the left wins, you have already reached that point

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#102

Post by AlexandrB »

gregallan wrote: post #79
wincy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few days ago they were one of the top torrents on a high seas themed site. I archived them if for no other reason than because I’ve been told that I shouldn’t.

Nobody is telling you you shouldn’t archive them. The publishers decided they weren’t comfortable selling them to be shown to children. I’m personally glad that you’ve helped preserve these once-beloved cultural artifacts. However, I’d hope that anyone would hesitate to give these particular books to children in 2021.

It would be one thing if the publisher just stopped printing them. As pointed out in the article they were banned from eBay (a dubious honour achieved not even by Mein Kampf), and removed from libraries.

In terms of giving these to children - I'd argue that this is the parent's decision to make and that there are far worse things we are seem to be ok exposing children to, like advertising or social media.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#103

Post by undefined1 »

tharne wrote: post #15

I've noticed this too. The recommendations I'm now getting from my audible account are full of newly-published titles promoting wokism and other morally and intellectually bankrupt junk rather than the classic titles I typically go for.

it's like if Spotify suddenly started recommending Christian Rock.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#105

Post by dragonwriter »

harshreality wrote: post #85
vcavallo wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i’m not familiar with JKR’s anti-trans speech. got a quote?

The tl;dr of it is that she's commented about biological femininity as a real experience distinct from trans-females. That offends the ideological extreme of the trans movement which has labelled her a TERF (trans-exclusionary radical feminist).

JKR is much more clearly TE than RF.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#106

Post by stephenhuey »

scarecrowbob wrote: post #49
nickthemagicman wrote: post #6

It's gripping the entire world. When things are judged, not by how the author intended, but by the readers interpretation, it's a bad situation.

I've been reading Alice Miller's book "For Your Own Good" this last week. Big chunks of her book excerpt "Mein Kampf", which I previous hadn't read at all. I have very little problem reading Hitler's text through my own critical lens, without adopting the authors intent. I have a very different view on the world than Hitler, and I have no problem at all saying that my views are less pathological than his and further,…

You both raise some good points, but in your case you may at least understand what Hitler was trying to communicate when you decide not to adopt his view.

To answer your question, a bad situation in my mind would be something like this example: a few years ago a relatively bright friend who had worked for a famous national politician got into a disagreement with me when I referred to The Colbert Report as satire. He did not think there was satire or that Colbert was putting on another character for the show at all. I was a big fan of the show, but it was alarming to me how many people might not understand subtlety like satire in novels and movies.

Maybe there was never a golden area when everybody got it. In Voltaire's day, did the majority of the populace comprehend his meaning? Were the majority even aware of his messages?

I have always loved reading novels from an early age, and find them superior in understanding other people's ways of thinking. As advanced and educated as many people enjoy being in the 21st century, I fear too many might still not bother to dig deeper into the intentions of a writer to truly understand what they were hinting at. It's an excellent skill applicable to other areas in life, and with controversial topics it can really help to bridge the gap in a polarized debate. Hitler is an extreme, and I personally don't believe all writing is fundamentally good and edifying to your soul, but I do think effort should be made to understand an author, especially when the writing clashes with contemporary norms. You can still discard it after carefully weighing it, but if you discard it without giving credit to what the author was trying to say because you don't even understand it, that's a loss.

These zealous critics could apply their same logic to cancel my beloved Huckleberry Finn, a book that shed light on injustice more effectively than most even though the author did not come from the same ethnic background as Jim.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#107

Post by [deleted] »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #82
space_fountain wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this comment exemplifies the core of the issue. It’s not that many people actually have a problem with society holding famous people to account for their misdeeds. It’s that they simply don’t think they are misdeeds. They don’t find a problem with the things JK says and they feel like Woody Allen is probably a nice guy unfairly being attacked. Which like actually fine, that’s a legitimate position you can tak…

but it doesn’t really say anything about it being ok or not for the larger culture to sanction people You can sanction Rowling, don't buy her books. You can criticize Rowling, you can publish books hating on Rowling, those are all great ways in a free society to show opposition. The problem is that activists want to destroy Rowling, erase her from public space, and deny others the right to buy and read her books. Row…

[deleted]

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#108

Post by amalcon »

jseliger wrote: post #29

I'm surprised more writers don't advertise with slogans like "read the dangerous book they don't want you to read." It's also possible that the most interesting writing is happening in the self-published world, or the near-self-published world. That's where current classics like Lolita or Ulysses came from. Or much of D.H. Lawrence.

That's been the primary manner of marketing a whole genre of books for decades. Therefore you can't use that slogan unless you're OK with being mistaken for that genre.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#109

Post by vp8989 »

heterodoxxed wrote: post #53
fatbird wrote: post #30

Alarmism over cancel culture is weird because cancel culture, which has always existed in one form or another, from one side or another, is what creates something to transgress against. The great, transgressive works of yesterday are so just because they caused controversy and challenge. If transgressive works dropped without a squeek, they wouldn't be transgressive, would they? It's nonsensical to to try to preserve…

Much of the reaction is people who want to be transgressive but don't truly have the stomach for it. Especially if twitter chatter can break their spirit. There are new conventions forming. Writers who want to break them need to learn how to put up their fists. And writing a medium article complaining about cancel culture is not how that is done.

How is it done then?

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#110

Post by space_fountain »

makomk wrote: post #78
space_fountain wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this comment exemplifies the core of the issue. It’s not that many people actually have a problem with society holding famous people to account for their misdeeds. It’s that they simply don’t think they are misdeeds. They don’t find a problem with the things JK says and they feel like Woody Allen is probably a nice guy unfairly being attacked. Which like actually fine, that’s a legitimate position you can tak…

The other problem with this claim is that even if you do believe that J K Rowling's personal views are transphobic (and honestly, they probably are), she really doesn't seem to have been using her power to push them. The woke establishment that's been going after her, on the other hand, absolutely used their power to push transphobia in ways that actually mattered, including into UK law.

I mean we wouldn’t even be talking about this if she wasn’t you know a famous well respected author. I haven’t read her latest book, but my understanding is it has a character who is pretty close to the terf idea of what a trans person is which would seem like it’s using her writing to perpetuate her view
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