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A new moralism is gripping the literary world

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Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#61

Post by space_fountain »

undefined1 wrote: post #41
meanjeans wrote: post #24

I think the author here misrepresented the JK Rowling thing quite a bit. The idea is not to "scour" her texts for hidden anti-trans sentiment. The idea is that Rowling makes money off of selling her books and has built an empire, and the resultant power is now used by her as a platform to propagate anti-trans speech. Quite a different issue and also quite novel (pun unintended). Death of the Author is a concurrently…

it's not true that JK Rowling was or is doing that. that's a misrepresentation.

I think this comment exemplifies the core of the issue. It’s not that many people actually have a problem with society holding famous people to account for their misdeeds. It’s that they simply don’t think they are misdeeds. They don’t find a problem with the things JK says and they feel like Woody Allen is probably a nice guy unfairly being attacked. Which like actually fine, that’s a legitimate position you can take which might actually be right, but it doesn’t really say anything about it being ok or not for the larger culture to sanction people

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#62

Post by titzer »

apocalypstyx wrote: post #56

Every major publisher is a capitalist enterprise. Editors, et al., are merely devices to operate such enterprise in order to deliver monetary value to board members and shareholders. All decisions, one way or another, are toward that aim, regardless of surface appearance. Those who have a problem with the current situation actually, then, have a problem with capitalism but don't know or can't admit it. Capitalism is…

I mostly agree with what you wrote, but "Capitalism is not a moral force (except unto itself)" isn't right. It absolutely is a moral force that has passed judgment on lazy, poor, and uneducated rubes who don't toil endlessly and retire unhappy to die early and not drain the system. Our society constantly shames people who don't buy the propaganda about our moral overlords, the Bezoses, Gateses, and Musks of the world.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#63

Post by eclat »

jseliger wrote: post #29

I'm surprised more writers don't advertise with slogans like "read the dangerous book they don't want you to read." It's also possible that the most interesting writing is happening in the self-published world, or the near-self-published world. That's where current classics like Lolita or Ulysses came from. Or much of D.H. Lawrence.

That’s what’s happening. Publications like Substack are letting authors escape the censors. Others still like Quillette, Aero, Spiked and more traditional ones like the Spectator have an anti woke consensus mission - and they represent the entire political spectrum.

I’m not sure about book publishers but the change is happening across media more widely. The progressive left keeps getting hammered in elections in Europe at least, but it seems certain institutions are going the other way, not least media.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#65

Post by blub »

space_fountain wrote: post #28
tharne wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Living in a free and open society means defending everyone's right to have a voice, and that means defending the free speech rights of those we despise.

The point is the essay conflates allowing all voices to be heard with being ok with credibly accused sexual offenders. More generally though free speech goes both ways. Are you arguing that you should be forced to amplify positions you find repellent?

WTF does it even mean to be "credibly accused"? It doesn't matter how one is accused if at the end they are not convicted. This is the whole principle behind a nation of law.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#66

Post by Pxtl »

I hate this kind of anti-woke reactionary stuff.

... but for aspiring writers, there is a problem. On the one hand, writers should write what they know. They shouldn't try to assume they know some minority's lived experiences.

On the other hand, literature should be inclusive. That means including minorities, and not just as peripheral characters. We don't need more My Magical Gay Friend stories.

I haven't heard a good discussion on how to reconcile this contradiction. The only avenue that leaves is for straight white people to stop writing, and, y'know: No.

The outrage does seem selective. I mean, one of the seminal classics of science-fiction literature on the subject of gender - and a very popular book among feminist readers - is The Left Hand of Darkness, by Ursula K. LeGuin. And I've never heard anyone complain that she wrote a black protagonist, despite not having black experiences. But on the other hand, The Left Hand of Darkness isn't much about the black experience. It's more of a travelogue of a genderless society.

So maybe that's the distinction?

American Dirt isn't just about a Mexican, it's a story of the Mexican-American immigration experience. And maybe it's right that stories like that should be written by people who're closer to them?

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#67

Post by swayvil »

karaterobot wrote: post #8

This article is ridiculous. The current wave of book burning, censorship and denunciation is completely different from previous ones, because I support the positions of the mob. I know that this wave of book burnings, censorship and denunciation will lead to a brighter tomorrow. I should point out that I don't support 100% of the positions of the mob, but I won't say which ones I disagree with because I don't want to…

The point is not to be right. The actual assertions made by the "woke" hivemind do not actually matter.

The point is to demonstrate utter obedience and submissiveness to the hivemind.

Imagine that you are 6 years old and your mom is a psychotic, occasionally violent, control freak. It's a bit like that.

What drove our society to this height of neurosis?

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#68

Post by Pxtl »

tharne wrote: post #15

I've noticed this too. The recommendations I'm now getting from my audible account are full of newly-published titles promoting wokism and other morally and intellectually bankrupt junk rather than the classic titles I typically go for.

> wokism and other morally and intellectually bankrupt junk

duuuuude.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#69

Post by blub »

KittenInABox wrote: post #17
tharne wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Living in a free and open society means defending everyone's right to have a voice, and that means defending the free speech rights of those we despise.

No one is saying Woody Allen shouldn't produce his own memoir. I am saying its weird to conflate not desiring to purchase the nonfiction rights of a credibly accused child molester and then profit off of selling that same nonfiction to otherwise significantly more niche issues such as whether or not a white author should be writing black protagonists. The end of the essay even focuses on the race aspect! I just compl…

Credibly accused is not a thing. You're either guilty or not guilty and he hasn't been found guilty.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#70

Post by tenm43 »

bitcurious wrote: post #25

> https://www.theguardian.com/books/2021/mar/10/not-suitable-c... This extends beyond the contents of the book. Here a "white" (but really Catalan) man was fired from translating a poem because his identity didn't mirror the poet's.

Funny you would mention Catalan when Catalonian public schools are trying to extinguish the use of Spanish on the basis that 60 years ago it was "the language of Franco and fascism". The amount of moral crusading in Catalonia against the use of the Spanish language is appalling.

Looks like this modern moralism really does extend much farther than publishing books.

https://www.elconfidencial.com/espana/2020-11-05/la-comision...

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