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A new moralism is gripping the literary world

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Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#81
post #3

So no more Sci-fi Books from the alien point of view?

A Bugs Life is an abominable appropriation of insect culture. You're not an ant so you lack the authority to write or read anything that represents ant culture.

I know you are being sarcastic but if ants could communicate this is exactly what they will say. The movie represents nothing from their culture and makes shit up.

The difference is minority people can fight back.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it's not true that JK Rowling was or is doing that. that's a misrepresentation.

I think this comment exemplifies the core of the issue. It’s not that many people actually have a problem with society holding famous people to account for their misdeeds. It’s that they simply don’t think they are misdeeds. They don’t find a problem with the things JK says and they feel like Woody Allen is probably a nice guy unfairly being attacked. Which like actually fine, that’s a legitimate position you can tak…

but it doesn’t really say anything about it being ok or not for the larger culture to sanction people

You can sanction Rowling, don't buy her books. You can criticize Rowling, you can publish books hating on Rowling, those are all great ways in a free society to show opposition. The problem is that activists want to destroy Rowling, erase her from public space, and deny others the right to buy and read her books. Rowling has enough power and stature where she isn't really threatened, but smaller authors are being "disappeared".

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#83

It's gripping the entire world. When things are judged, not by how the author intended, but by the readers interpretation, it's a bad situation.

I've been reading Alice Miller's book "For Your Own Good" this last week. Big chunks of her book excerpt "Mein Kampf", which I previous hadn't read at all. I have very little problem reading Hitler's text through my own critical lens, without adopting the authors intent. I have a very different view on the world than Hitler, and I have no problem at all saying that my views are less pathological than his and further,…

Actually my point is a tautological fallacy.

You can never know what the author intended when writing. And every reader has a different subjective experience of a piece of literature or a work of art.

So it's actually fucking impossible to even judge a work of art or writing based on the authors or readers perspective or in any thing beyond the aesthetic.

Because what you think about something may not be what someone else thinks about it.

And every persons thinking is influenced by so many different experiences: cultural, personal, moral, etc.

So to attempt to create a concrete narrative about the intentions of a specific work of art or literature is impossible.

This applies to reality as well.

I've never read Mein Kampf, but I assume Hitle has good intentions for his country and wants peace and prosperity for the particular ingroup of people he identifies with. This is the same that everyone wants for their particular ingroup. Hitler did terrible things to accomplish that.

So your perspective on Hitlers work is affected by the genocide that he commited.

However, history is written by the winners and the present reality is merely one narrative, that the winners create.

AMERICANS and every single other country in the world have commited genocide and other horrible atrocities.(see Native Americans during settler times and 400k innocent civilians killed in the middle east during the past decade)

However, they won.

If Hitler had won WW2 I can't help but wonder if the Jewish Holocaust would have been as minimized as the Native American Holocaust, and pushed under the rug.

And Hitler would have gone down in history as a hero based on the news media spinning that narrative and nationalistic exuberance.

Narratives are the most powerful thing in the world but also the most untrue.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as you are able to do that, is it truly censoring? No ones burning books here. To say the publishing industry is especially censoring today than before is outrageous. The point is that it self censored in the ethnicity and gender of its authors instead of the material. I've been trying to get the older Seuss books. They're impossible to get. And if one of them does happen to be available, the prices are ast…

| if one of them does happen to be available, the prices are astronomical Yes, they're out of print and the only people who want them are collectors, so the prices for collectibles are high. That's not unusual. What are you proposing be done? Force the Seuss Foundation to publish books it doesn't want to publish?

I would prefer that any book that has not been in print for 10 years automatically fall into public domain as abandoned.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#85

I think the author here misrepresented the JK Rowling thing quite a bit. The idea is not to "scour" her texts for hidden anti-trans sentiment. The idea is that Rowling makes money off of selling her books and has built an empire, and the resultant power is now used by her as a platform to propagate anti-trans speech. Quite a different issue and also quite novel (pun unintended). Death of the Author is a concurrently…

i’m not familiar with JKR’s anti-trans speech. got a quote?

The tl;dr of it is that she's commented about biological femininity as a real experience distinct from trans-females. That offends the ideological extreme of the trans movement which has labelled her a TERF (trans-exclusionary radical feminist).

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#86

This article is ridiculous. The current wave of book burning, censorship and denunciation is completely different from previous ones, because I support the positions of the mob. I know that this wave of book burnings, censorship and denunciation will lead to a brighter tomorrow. I should point out that I don't support 100% of the positions of the mob, but I won't say which ones I disagree with because I don't want to…

Friendly reminder: It’s typically a good time to do some self-reflection when you find yourself saying “I support the positions of the mob”

There is no instance of irony that won’t be taken literally by some tone-deaf reader.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#87
I always have trouble with stuff like this, because my inner teenage hacker is cheering that "information wants to be free!" while at the same time I'm cognizant of the fact that we have to treat information with a certain level of care.

Here's a take I don't necessarily believe, but is about as generous to the new left as I can make it: Ideas can be powerfully virulent, and we're especially susceptible to them when they support something we already suspect (confirmation bias). Under complete deregulation, people seek out information that confirms their biases, and our societal inertia continues unrestricted. The naive solution to me is something like we have now: introduce a friction factor. People are generally lazy, and if they don't have immediate access to something, they won't seek it out. If we make problematic media difficult to find but nevertheless available, we change the general cultural milieu without outright banning difficult texts.

This obviously falls apart when it comes to introducing new texts and ideas into the mainstream - if people are disincentivized to print anything that isn't playing by the rules, it's terrible for innovation and creates a whole new brand of inertia. It's also terrible in that it's an unstable equilibrium: if people care enough to keep their foot on the gas in terms of narrowing access to virulent media, it doesn't take much to convince them to go pedal-to-the-metal and start banning everything.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#88

I think the author here misrepresented the JK Rowling thing quite a bit. The idea is not to "scour" her texts for hidden anti-trans sentiment. The idea is that Rowling makes money off of selling her books and has built an empire, and the resultant power is now used by her as a platform to propagate anti-trans speech. Quite a different issue and also quite novel (pun unintended). Death of the Author is a concurrently…

and you can’t let people decide whether to give her money or not because you are an elitist.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#89
post #71

Uh, this is definitely going to be a "more heat than light" thread.

I've been trying to figure out why this topic in particular triggers exceptionally passionate discussion on HN.

I have some pet theories, but they're really speculative, and I'm not very confident in them.

Re: A new moralism is gripping the literary world

#90

This article is ridiculous. The current wave of book burning, censorship and denunciation is completely different from previous ones, because I support the positions of the mob. I know that this wave of book burnings, censorship and denunciation will lead to a brighter tomorrow. I should point out that I don't support 100% of the positions of the mob, but I won't say which ones I disagree with because I don't want to…

This line of thinking has me gravely concerned for the future of liberal democracy. I don't know where parent lives in the world, but from my perspective in the United States, I deeply fear that there are many Americans who would support an anti-democratic coup (or mob) in a heartbeat so long as it aligned with enough of their political sentiments. Edit: maybe parent is a little too-secretly sarcastic, but even so I…

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