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Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

sciencenorway.no

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Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#231

Post by Bjartr »

dekhn wrote: post #142
dekhn wrote: post #15

There is absolutely not enough evidence from this particular doctor to justify the claim. It's irresponsible to publish this.

Here's a better article, https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/15/health/astra-zeneca-vacci... ? """Calculating further, he said, roughly 1 percent of the 1,000 to 2,000 daily blood clots — 10 to 20 a day — would occur in the vaccinated patients just as part of the normal background rates, not related to the vaccine. “Only if epidemiological data show that that rate is higher, would one start to wonder about a causative re…

Exactly, for all we know the clotting rate could be lower within the vaccinated group.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#232

Post by throwaway0a5e »

jdavis703 wrote: post #195
milkrocks wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe stop banning things and let people make their own decisions.

If drivers were the only ones impacted, I’d agree. For example professional race car drivers have all consented to the risks, so what they do on the race track is up to them. But when cars are used for general transportation there are all kinds of negative externalities that people can’t opt out of.

Other people are always impacted by our decisions. That's just the world we live in. Damn near everything you do affects the people around you in some way.

Do the people around alcoholics consent to that?

At some point the risks/reward of various behaviors (let alone the substances that enable them, you don't see people scrambling to ban belts because people hit their kids with them) are such that legislating away things with varying degrees of state violence to back it up isn't worth the tradeoff.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#233

Post by unanswered »

AnthonBerg wrote: post #188
kwhitefoot wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need to read the VG articles, they are much more thorough than the one linked on HN but they are in Norwegian. Google Translate does a fair job. https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/QmwR1V/professor-om-mi... https://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/i/KyWoy6/jakter-astrazen... A key quote from the second of those is this: Madsen har tidligere forklart at det er to nivåer å undersøke bivirkninger på: Gruppebasert, og i…

This comment should not be downvoted as it is both topical and helpful.

Downvotes have nothing to do with topicality and helpfulness. They are purely a mechanism for sharing and reinforcing social norms by promoting and protecting The Narrative.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#234

Post by brundolf »

vibrio wrote: post #4

Based on all the information provided in this article, this article is premature to publish. The headline is accurate, as 'experts say', but lack of any independent support of data supporting the claim, makes this dubious (at best) to publish at this point.

The phrase "experts say" is often used in headlines where it may technically be true ("one or more experts personally believe X") but to the reader's mind it translates as "a majority consensus of the field's experts have agreed on X given new, relevant evidence". I don't think this dichotomy is accidental.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#235

Post by timr »

adrr wrote: post #124
timr wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Asians countries are booming since their economy wasn't affected because the stringent lock downs controlled the virus. This is an exaggeration, at best. There may have been countries that grew in the latter part of 2020, but to characterize these as "booming" is misleading. Japan had its first economic contraction since 2009 (down 4.8% over 2019). They've been flirting with deflation throughout 2020. And they're o…

Vietnam, China,Taiwan had positive GDP growth in 2020 and as far as i know the only countries with positive GDP. Your article is from September. Q4 data is now out so you can get the full 2020. Countries that failed to contain the virus like Europe and the US had negative GDP growth and racked up large amounts of debt.

> Your article is from September. Q4 data is now out so you can get the full 2020.

You're certainly welcome to do the work to prove the (extraordinary) claim that you're making.

As I said, even if you can find a few examples of growth amidst the broader disaster, most are nowhere near what they would have been.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#236

Post by iso1631 »

milkrocks wrote: post #171
jdavis703 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cars should also be banned and replaced with alternatives (be it safe self driving tech, public transit or biking). Car crashes are one of the top killers of young people in terms of crashes, and we’re just starting to understand the effects of air pollution on young lungs.

Or maybe stop banning things and let people make their own decisions.

In the UK 40 people standing on a sidewalk are killed by car drivers every year

In my local town a couple of months ago a car driver managed to embed their car in a house, fortunately the resident was upstairs at the time and not sitting in their living room, otherwise they would have been dead

Last week another driver hit a stone column, 3' from the road (with sidewalk between), damaging a 500 year old building and meaning the residents had to be evacuated. They're still in a hotel.

How do you propose those people make their own decisions?

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#237

Post by jiofih »

Mauricebranagh wrote: post #230
AnthonBerg wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because aspirin has no meaningful impact on as severe an autoimmune platelet implosion as is described in these cases.

Ah so its not just thickening of the blood then fair enough.

If only medicine was logical like that. Not a cake recipe.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#239

Post by proc0 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #224
proc0 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have zero faith in the current generations that are adults. It will have to be future generations that can think clearly without judgement.

How are you going to get those future generations to think clearly without judgment? The same things that afflict the thinking of the current adults will afflict the next generations when they are adults.

Agreed, I have more faith in upcoming generations, albeit risk is still there.

Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine

#240

Post by chithanh »

afavour wrote: post #53
b112 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but, there are close to 200 vaccines. It isn't as if all vaccinations have stopped, there are other options, and panic and fear on the side of omg must vaccinate now, now,now! ? Any hint, even the slightest, that complications may be ignored, could result in untold masses refusing vaccination out of fear. So let's pause one vaccine for a few days, and see if moving ahead, or more research is required.

> there are other options Not with sufficient supply there isn’t. That’s the issue almost every country is facing, and AZ production plants can’t just flip a switch and start making Moderna vaccines instead. No matter what if you stop using the AZ you’re going to have a sharp drop in the number of vaccinations you’re able to do. That would almost certainly result in more deaths than the side effect of the vaccine. >…

>> there are other options

> Not with sufficient supply there isn’t.

Depends. If AZ is not removed entirely from use but instead only from the most affected group (women under 50), then this can be achieved by shuffling around which group gets which vaccine. So the same number of people will be vaccinated, and vaccination deaths are avoided.

> Only if people (and the media especially) hype up a very small danger to be more than it is.

At least here in Germany, it was mainly the healthcare workers who specifically rejected AZ. Police, fire brigade, kindergarten teachers, etc. were eager to get any vaccine. So simply blaming it on the media is maybe short-sighted, there are other dynamics at play here.

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