Europe really messed up their vaccine orders and they are looking for excuses to cover it up.
Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine
81–90 of 288 posts
Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine
#82Based on all the information provided in this article, this article is premature to publish. The headline is accurate, as 'experts say', but lack of any independent support of data supporting the claim, makes this dubious (at best) to publish at this point.
This is an issue under active discussion that is extremely relevant to basically everyone right now. That every information on this topic is preliminary should be obvious to every intelligent person.
I appreciate reporting on the scientific discussion in such a case.
Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine
#83I have a family member who read a similar story, and because he has blood clotting issues, it's giving him pause to taking any vaccine.
Nevermind that the AZ vaccine isn't even available where he lives (U.S.) yet. But couple a fear-mongering headline with an aging population, and this is what you get.
Thanks, media. Bang up job you did there.
Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine
#84I'm happy this research has been done so quickly, but am somewhat annoyed that the public conversation is so focused on whether or not the vaccine can possibly cause any problems, and not at all focused on the risk management question of what the optimal choice here is.
The chance of getting a blood clot seems so low that it may for all I know be equivalent to the risk of dying in the streets while jaywalking to get to the vaccination center. Compared to the risk of going unvaccinated, it's an obvious choice.
That's not the choice we have though. The correct comparison seems to be the expected risk of taking the vaccine vs expected risk of waiting for a dose of another vaccine. Calculating this on an individual level should be straight forward given the risk of contracting COVID in a given area. Ideally the calculation would also take into account the effect that vaccination has on the virus reproduction number. That's harder to model, but approximate models like this exist.
If you actually put numbers to it and do this computation, you'll get an answer, or at least a distribution of outcomes, where it's straight forward to see what choice is optimal. Then public discussion can be around what the parameters of this model should be, and we'll stand a chance of making the right choice.
This is a potentially very consequential optimization problem, and the public discussion about it is as if no one understands that that is what it is.
Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine
#85Astra Zeneca says it's less than 40 cases in 17 million. Are those numbers accurate? That seems like quite a small population affected.
That is a significant number for a medicament that is given to healthy people.
If you had children and one of them died as a result of a vaccine, you would not say is a small population affected.
There are other vaccines that can be used. I believe Oxford will license Sputnik and manufacture it.
Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine
#86Interesting, and very concerning if it's true. I was given my first shot of the AZ vaccine on Monday afternoon, so I was aware of the reports of blood clots at the time although only in outline. I just don't understand how come the same reaction hasn't been seen in the millions of people vaccinated with AZ outside Norway (edit - it has been, thanks for the info, none of the articles I've come across properly explaine…
Your options are not just A) take the AZ vaccine right now, and B) never take any vaccine. You can also wait until more data becomes available, or until another vaccine becomes available. Doing so does carry some incremental risk, but this risk is smaller than the risk of not getting vaccinated ever.
I specifically talked about the risks of delayed vaccination and did not frame the choice in the extreme terms you described.
Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine
#87I am flagging this and so should you.
The "experts say" part lacks independent support. There is more news expected from EU on this today.
Headline like this cause more damage and spread distrust of vaccines.
Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
per google translate, it may have more information but not more data, nor independent confirmation of the experts' opinions.
Actually this is independent testing for the AZ vaccine. As in, the only testing not done by AZ themselves. It all depends on how you look at it...
Pretty sure all countries that distribute it have their own independent data sets, or are you suggesting AZ runs the health care systems across Europe?
Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine
#89Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the argument for suspending the vaccine was that the number was still significantly higher than the expected value, despite being very low.
40 out of 17 million is 0.0002%. Surely 0.0002% of any cohort go on to develop blood clots? I'd certainly pick those odds over being unvaccinated.
If you read more closely you'll notice they're talking about a particular kind of thrombosis[1] which is accompanied by low platelet counts. This particular symptom is usually sign of a particular autoimmune response and has an incidence of about 4-5 per million people per year.
[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thrombotic_thrombocytopenic_pu...
Re: Norwegian experts say blood clots were caused by the AstraZeneca Covid vaccine
#90Earlier quoted context omitted.
How about trying for murder the people who advocated the global "soft" lockdown that plunged hundreds of millions of people in poor countries into poverty ( https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2020/10/07/c... ) and killed hundreds of thousands of children ( https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-childr... ), just to increase the life expectancy of their 80 year old grandparents by a year or…
How about trying for murder the people who advocated that the economy is more important and killed thousands of people through negligence? We can never know due to the vast array of different variables involved, but to say what Brazil is going through, or what some US states went through, and the associated death toll is somehow better than a lockdown seems a very weird take. When thousands are sick, and hospitals ar…
The hospitals are full because massive amounts of exaggerated takes on Coronavirus were propped up by many vehicles (media, moral heroes, etc). We couldn’t identify the true at-risk demo and target them.
No, enough of the moral take. We didn’t approach this pragmatically, and we need to stand up against the grandstanding that fervently uses emotional hostage taking as a talking point.
FUD was at maximum from the start. Toilet paper shortages. What else can I say.