German man loses 400k GBP about $500k in Twitter Bitcoin scam

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 2:38 PM UTC

shawnz wrote: post #104

ImprobableTruth wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's not real money, it's an asset! I think you have a wrong understanding of what unrealized gains are. It's not about whether you earned it yourself - it's about whether it's liquid cash or just an asset. Only once you sell your asset do you realize your gains.

As I asked in the other part of this thread: Would you feel differently if he sold the bitcoins and then immediately bought them again before participating in the scam? Of course not. Even though that would make them "realized", that has no impact on the situation

Post by John23832 » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 3:10 PM UTC

cosmodisk wrote: post #66

John23832 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says that he checked for a check to verify that it was Elon running the account. Sure, greed motivates people, but in this case greed would not have motivated him to continue if he saw that the account was not verified and not Elon’s. If anything the check provided him with the confidence to continue more than anything else.

I understand he tried to verify it's really Elon, however it still falls under 'something for nothing' category,so it's just different shade of greed.In fact most scams can be put into only a handful categories,such as greed, wanting to help, seeking love,etc.

Post by isthisreality » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 3:13 PM UTC

D13Fd wrote: post #110

WA wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. This is a common way to think about it, but it's wrong imho. Because that money is real and it buys you real stuff. If you have that money one day and it is gone the next, you effectively lost that money. It doesn't matter where it came from. Think about it: You inherit $500k. You lose it through a scam or a bet or gambling. Do you think it doesn't matter? I mean, you didn't earn that money yourself, right? There…

For tax purposes, in the U.S., what he had at the time was an unrealized gain. So if he later went to convert that Bitcoin into U.S. dollars, he would have a taxable event (i.e., if he cashed out the whole thing, he would owe taxes on the difference between his basis and the value at the time). I don't know how it works in Germany though.

Post by lm28469 » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:17 PM UTC

gizmo686 wrote: post #98

lm28469 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well yes, but if you invest your own money without going through banks at least you have some choice in where it goes (oil companies, weapon companies, sustainable funds, &c.) and you get to cash out all the benefits (or loss) I'll take my 7%+ average over the last 100 years vs the "insured" 0.5% my bank proposes me (which doesn't even pay for what my bank charges me monthly)

In other words, you are exposed to approximately 0 downside risk and 0 upside risk when you give your money to a bank. That is practically the opposite of them gambling for you. It is a fine critism to say that the bank uses your money to invest for itself, and you would rather use your money to invest for yourself; or that you would rather have input in what your money gets invested in for reasons other than financi…

Post by WA » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 5:15 PM UTC

D13Fd wrote: post #110

WA wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. This is a common way to think about it, but it's wrong imho. Because that money is real and it buys you real stuff. If you have that money one day and it is gone the next, you effectively lost that money. It doesn't matter where it came from. Think about it: You inherit $500k. You lose it through a scam or a bet or gambling. Do you think it doesn't matter? I mean, you didn't earn that money yourself, right? There…

For tax purposes, in the U.S., what he had at the time was an unrealized gain. So if he later went to convert that Bitcoin into U.S. dollars, he would have a taxable event (i.e., if he cashed out the whole thing, he would owe taxes on the difference between his basis and the value at the time). I don't know how it works in Germany though.