Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective. • Hacker News Board

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#131

Post by chc » Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 6:31 PM UTC

glenngillen wrote: post #56

patio11 wrote: post #9

I think you might be overestimating how much insight the waitress has into the business. It may be the case that this was a close, family-held restaurant and they have a daily pow-wow on cost of goods and marketing strategy, but I wouldn't bet that way. My guess? Groupon customers are poor tippers, either from adverse selection or because they either a) attempt to tip with leftover funny-money or b) tip based on the…

I took the same Groupon deal with a similar outcome (although we stated from the outset we had a voucher so no awkwardness about stuff we'd have to pay extra for). That said: * This is in London, which doesn't have the same "tipping culture" as the US. Sure hospitality jobs don't pay great, but both my wife and I have worked them in the UK and you can definitely get by without tips. Getting snippy about a drop in tip…

My experience as a several-time Groupon user: I've found that restaurant Groupons tend to get you lousy service from cranky staff. Other businesses tend to be better.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#132

Post by daimyoyo » Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 6:37 PM UTC

What this restaurant didn't seem to understand is the fact that groupon is like any other promotion. It's a loss leader that brings in new business. Perhaps the groupon customers wouldn't have been so bratty if the deal had been worded better, but who knows. The thing is that places like restaurants rely on repeat business and word of mouth as their primary sources of customers, and that's what groupon is designed to bring. I think the fault here is not in groupon's hands but the restauranteur.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#133

Post by chc » Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 6:50 PM UTC

bdhe wrote: post #46

hnsmurf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Groupon customers are definitely poor tippers. I've known a number of waiters to complain about it. The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be.

The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be. I am not intimately familiar with the tipping culture (at least in the US), but here are some genuine questions: Is there an inherent reason you tip on the full price? Is it a tax? If tipping is to support staff wages does that mean waiters who serve fancier higher priced food items are en…

Groupon does instruct customers to tip on the full price. It's probably part of the picture they draw when they're pitching to businesses — so when people skimp on the tip, it's a rude awakening.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#134

Post by michaeldhopkins » Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 7:16 PM UTC

rmc wrote: post #106

ssebro wrote: post #104

I had a similar terminal groupon experience: I had meal of really, really bad indian food, at a restaurant I would never have tried otherwise and when I mentioned I was going to use a groupon I was told that my bill now included a 15% non-negotiable "service charge". In fact, my bill was taken back and changed so it was clear that the "tip" was compulsory.

Is that legal? Can restaurants legally include a serive charge?

They can put whatever they want on the bill but the post author was not required to pay it. Of course, he would be in a difficult position since the restaurant would have taken the tip and put it towards the service charge, so the author could not have easily paid for just the meal and the tip.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#135

Post by Sakes » Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 7:19 PM UTC

bdhe wrote: post #46

hnsmurf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Groupon customers are definitely poor tippers. I've known a number of waiters to complain about it. The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be.

The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be. I am not intimately familiar with the tipping culture (at least in the US), but here are some genuine questions: Is there an inherent reason you tip on the full price? Is it a tax? If tipping is to support staff wages does that mean waiters who serve fancier higher priced food items are en…

The company is offering the coupon, not the waitress/waiter. It'd be like every time the company you work for offers a discount to a customer, you see money taken out of your hourly wage or salary. Personally that would make me livid.

I always tip on the full price of the meal.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#136

Post by jrgnsd » Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 7:25 PM UTC

kenjackson wrote: post #99

patio11 wrote: post #9

I think you might be overestimating how much insight the waitress has into the business. It may be the case that this was a close, family-held restaurant and they have a daily pow-wow on cost of goods and marketing strategy, but I wouldn't bet that way. My guess? Groupon customers are poor tippers, either from adverse selection or because they either a) attempt to tip with leftover funny-money or b) tip based on the…

I know one hamburger restaurant chain here in Seattle, the Counter, that is now on the second round of Groupon, and this round they offered two coupons per customer -- so my thought is the first round couldn't have went too poorly. I went in with a Groupon and the experience was first class. Great service. They actually had one guy whose main job was to scan the Groupons. I asked him how things were businesswise with…

So at the end of the day, it's not a Groupon promotion that will draw you back, but the great service...

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#137

Post by kenjackson » Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 7:29 PM UTC

jrgnsd wrote: post #136

kenjackson wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know one hamburger restaurant chain here in Seattle, the Counter, that is now on the second round of Groupon, and this round they offered two coupons per customer -- so my thought is the first round couldn't have went too poorly. I went in with a Groupon and the experience was first class. Great service. They actually had one guy whose main job was to scan the Groupons. I asked him how things were businesswise with…

So at the end of the day, it's not a Groupon promotion that will draw you back, but the great service...

Groupon got me in the door. But the great service and good food will make me a regular customer.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#138

Post by bugsy » Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 7:31 PM UTC

bdhe wrote: post #46

hnsmurf wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Groupon customers are definitely poor tippers. I've known a number of waiters to complain about it. The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be.

The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be. I am not intimately familiar with the tipping culture (at least in the US), but here are some genuine questions: Is there an inherent reason you tip on the full price? Is it a tax? If tipping is to support staff wages does that mean waiters who serve fancier higher priced food items are en…

In the US, wait staff at restaurants are paid $2.35/hr, same as the minimum wage in 1975. Each time since then that the minimum wage has been raised, there has been an exception for agricultural labor (field workers can be paid $10 for a 12 hr day if you like and often are) and for restaurant workers.

For high end restaurants it's not so bad since you can make a living on tips. Also, it doesn't apply to fast food workers who don't get tips. However, some especially seedy fast food restaurants like Pizza Hut will have the staff bring out the food, meaning they are exempt from minimum wage. The problem is most Pizza Hut bills are small and half the customers don't realize they are supposed to tip since they think of it as fast food.

In addition to this, most restaurants have no benefit programs or insurance at all. In addition, as is customary in the US, in most cases if you are injured at work, a story will be constructed and you'll be fired.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#139

Post by DocSavage » Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 7:31 PM UTC

hnsmurf wrote: post #27

patio11 wrote: post #9

I think you might be overestimating how much insight the waitress has into the business. It may be the case that this was a close, family-held restaurant and they have a daily pow-wow on cost of goods and marketing strategy, but I wouldn't bet that way. My guess? Groupon customers are poor tippers, either from adverse selection or because they either a) attempt to tip with leftover funny-money or b) tip based on the…

Groupon customers are definitely poor tippers. I've known a number of waiters to complain about it. The problem is they tip on the Groupon price, not the full price, and are thus tipping something like 40% of what they should be.

Groupon coupons even have a note to prevent poor tipping:

"*Remember: Groupon customers tip on the full␣ amount of the pre-discounted bill (and tip␣ generously). That's why we are the coolest␣ customers out there."

In the few groupons I've used, I've tipped more than my normal 20% on the full price because I know I've saved money. Except for the one time when I encountered a waitress that acted like groupons were a hassle. It makes me think that poor tipping is exacerbated by a feedback loop: Waiters give worse service or are less enthusiastic to groupon holders, which leads the groupon holders to tip less thereby reinforcing the waiters' impression.

Re: Why I won't be using Groupon again.. A consumer perspective.

#140

Post by bugsy » Mon, Jun 13, 2011, 7:35 PM UTC

jamesaguilar wrote: post #129

ghshephard wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side note - in California 18.5% is the customary practice for tips, though, to make it easy, you can round up to 20%. No service person will complain. If you get lackluster service, you can point it out with a 15% tip. Poor service gets a 10% tip, and, will make it clear you are unhappy. After 15 years of doing this (I'm from Canada, where tips aren't as proscribed, though they are still expected) I find it awkward a…

I find etiquette fascinating, so I've read some books on it. Particularly, in tipping etiquette, prescriptive books seem to agree about one thing: In the US, if you're going to tip less than 15%, you should not tip at all. You should leave nothing and ask to speak with a manager to explain why you won't. If the failure in service doesn't rise to that level, then 15% is the minimum polite tip. Of course, it's your wal…

The books are not correct as far as practice goes. 10% was standard for years and 15% for great service. Waiters of course have been trying to promote 20%, 22.5% and more as normal.

10% is not great, but is what senior citizens and rich politicians will leave if they tip at all.