Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation • Hacker News Board

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#221

Post by seigando » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

squidlogic wrote: post #218

"Megan spent much of the next three days in her room, trying to concentrate on sensations in her body. Beck sat by her side. “She always had the option to leave,” Beck said. “She wanted to stay. She doubled down. She was trying so hard.” According to Beck, Megan told Hin that she felt like she was going crazy. Hin instructed Megan to focus on her breath. During one meeting, Megan had trouble sitting up, so Hin had he…

It's pretty significant how many people are willing to hurt themselves due to 'social pressure'.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#222

Post by seigando » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

tryitnow wrote: post #219

Question: Is there any strong evidence (e.g. meta-analyses) indicating that multi-day meditation retreats produce consistently positive effect over and above a regular daily practice (e.g. 30-60 minutes per day)?

Probably depends on how one defines positive effect.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#223

Post by seigando » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

chrispai wrote: post #80

The woman in the article was withdrawing from Zoloft during a very stressful time and went to meditate for 10 hours a day. It is not a surprise she had a psychotic break. Disregarding we have hidden memories that are locked away, it is established that our minds suppress troubling memories. After a long meditation time, they can come out. In my personal experience, I have had to discontinue sessions due to bad memori…

Very insightful comment, though I might point out that bad memories on their own don't inherently cause significant issues, it's in the the how/if one reacts to them.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#224

Post by seigando » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

srinikoganti wrote: post #90

Half knowledge article most likely sponsored by religious group

What do you mean?

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#225

Post by zepto » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 6:12 PM UTC

phkahler wrote: post #213

bayindirh wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me set this straight. Your comment is kinda short, but warrants a long answer. First of all, all of my comments are about what I experienced and know as a practitioner and instructor. Please don't take them in the context of the article. There are thousand ways of meditation, and I only know my way with all details. It'd be very irresponsible for me to speculate on something that I do not know. Hidden trauma is n…

I'm largely in agreement, but this: >> Hidden trauma is not something like a faceless blob. It's something you remember, you know, however you didn't realize that it created a trauma with you. Some people will block the memory. Others are aware of it but don't associate it with current feelings, thoughts, or actions, so when asked they will essentially "forget" it and say "no trauma". Yet other forms of trauma form f…

I’m in complete agreement, and will add that significant parts of a person’s personality can develop as a mechanism to mask or manage trauma, and that can end up suffusing all of their choices and relationships.

A sudden confrontation with this can be completely destabilizing.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#226

Post by im3w1l » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 7:13 PM UTC

kritiko wrote: post #171

fjfaase wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The report points out that even moderate meditation (more than 30 minutes per day) can have an objective negative effect on sleep quality, contraditionary to the fact that subjects often report a positive effect. (I have not found the scientific report where the statement is based on yet.)

https://www.brown.edu/academics/contemplative-studies/sites/... I think this is the study. "Amount of MM practice was correlated with increased PSG arousals, awakenings, stage 1 and decreased SWS, in a linear dose-dependent fashion."

Hypothesis: Meditation substitutes for sleep to some extent. They sleep less because they need to sleep less.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#227

Post by newusertoday » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 7:14 PM UTC

Disruptive_Dave wrote: post #176

I get asked about meditation every now and then from friends and their friends. Here's what I tell them: - Meditation is not a spa treatment for the mind. Certainly not in the short-term. I'm sure there are many meditation-like activities that will bring you more immediate "calming" effects. But those aren't meditation. - First time(s) you sit, one of your first realizations - through experience - will likely be arou…

This is the true insight, meditation is just a means to realize it. - Awareness is not happy, it is not fun, it is not calm, it is not exciting, it is not an emotional feeling. Awareness is just awareness.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#228

Post by im3w1l » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 7:20 PM UTC

pure_simplicity wrote: post #121

cambaceres wrote: post #115

My theory is that both Christianity and Islam exists because of the fact that deep prolonged mediation causes hallucinations and psychotic experiences. Why? Because God talked to both Jesus and Muhammed while they where meditating in the desert.

It can be useful to speculate, but I think you're not that familiar with what meditation in the Abrahamic religions looks like. Meditation in the biblical sense is to think deeply about something. Meditation in the eastern religion sense is to not think about anything. Those two are basically polar opposites and the psychological / neurological effects of the latter cannot be achieved by practising the former. (vario…

> Meditation in the eastern religion sense is to not think about anything.

There are many forms of eastern meditation. E.g. Vajrayana deity visualization meditation

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#229

Post by prophesi » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 7:26 PM UTC

seigando wrote: post #220

prophesi wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I didn't respond to your list of questions because you misread my claim in the first place.

Really? Didn't seem to be much there to misinterpret. edit: also, instead of clarifying what you meant, you doubled down on your claims. That doesn't speak to me of misinterpretation on my part.

Because you ended the comment with an insulting fantasy of me.

> Maybe you go through life constantly asserting and believing things that are in no way true....with no experience nor credentials nor having even read any literature to back any of them up...

I would have loved to actually engage in a conversation on how vipassana meditation inevitably, whether it's after 8 hours or 8000 hours, leads to disassociation. Ego death. Seeing reality as it is. But if you refute it by calling the person inexperienced and ignorant, the other party will have no reason or motivation to discuss it further.

I also didn't flag or downvote you, fyi.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#230

Post by mulberrybush » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 8:04 PM UTC

Nemrod67 wrote: post #147

mulberrybush wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is derived from kriya yoga, not Vāmācāra. Another similar online tutorial is https://www.aypsite.org/10.html . Real Vāmācāra by definition involves breaking all taboos - see this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hiKDMsIHn8 (warning - it is pretty horrific)

Watching the doc, all I see is LARP. Why do we consider those seriously while making fun of LaVey's rituals?

Shouldnt consider any of it seriously - it is all LARP all the way down...