Live data from Hacker News

GitHub, fuck your name change

mooseyanon.medium.com

Post reply on HN

Print view View original

731–740 of 1001 posts

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#731

Post by _-david-_ » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:30 PM UTC

geekraver wrote: post #612

jssmith wrote: post #538

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

While there may be plenty of people of all races who were not offended by the name, when you operate at the scale of a GitHub there is going to be some percentage who are. Some of them will complain. A company like GitHub then has two main options: change the name, or defend not changing the name. Whichever one they pick is going to cause various forms of backlash from various people, but it’s pretty obvious that cha…

>it’s pretty obvious that changing the name is more defensible and the better long-term approach.

Is it the better long-term approach? If you give in to a vocal minority what is stopping them from trying to change something else? Git means "an unpleasant or contemptible person". Surely that could be construed as offensive. What happens when / if a vocal minority decides Git and Github need to change their name? Should Github just change their name to prevent backlash?

Not to mention it appears to be mostly white people pushing this change, not even the alleged victims.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#732

Post by oceanplexian » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

imbnwa wrote: post #650

jssmith wrote: post #538

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

Black SWE here as well, highly disagree with this. If Microsoft/Github wanted to issue "a useful reminder of the implicit bias that contributes to the lack of diversity in tech", they could've founded an non-profit dedicated to training and job placement for BIPOC and underrepresented white women, they could've kept a continuous banner on their site that linked to relevant legislation, initiatives, causes, etc. They…

The sad thing is it’s not corporate generosity coming up with these initiatives, they are pushing them because it’s a PR benefit.

Changing the name of something or issuing a press release costs absolutely nothing. When you actually dig into the issue you find corporations have no problem with racist practices if changing them would be expensive or challenging. Running background checks on employees and not disclosing what they will discriminate on, acting like meritocracy is anything more than a fiction, the incredible bias towards hiring from places their friends worked at, etc. And most of big tech are falling over themselves to take contracts from oppressive governments and institutions.

I have to laugh a little when Amazon or Microsoft takes a stand against racism but does business in China, possibly one of the most racist, and human rights abusing government on Earth. Turns out the only thing these companies won’t discriminate against is cold hard cash.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#733

Post by munchbunny » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

nlitened wrote: post #336

Narann wrote: post #33

> So while the tech community was rushing around, trying to do their best impression of a black square post on Insta I remember thinking, “oh for fucks sake, they’ve completely missed the point”. Why? They forgot to talk to people who are actually members of the black community. In practice, big techs don't care about POC, they care about mobs. "Inclusive" words is just what make mobs happy and it's cheaper to do tha…

Is “person of color” an okay thing to say in US? It really rubs me the wrong way (as a non-native English speaker). To me it’s kinda like calling people with long noses “people of nose size”.

Yes. Just think of it as a formalism - it's the currently culturally accepted term if that's the group you're trying to reference.

Lots of languages have a fuzzy formal/casual split where usage is both context-based and a matter of respect, though I think the US is more unique in (1) the degree of energy focused towards coming up with formal names for demographic groups and (2) making them out of words that are also used casually.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#734

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:31 PM UTC

splix wrote: post #691

aaronbasssett wrote: post #606

Please name one country that never had slavery?

Well, as it was discussed in another thread, in another culture/language it may be totally not about slavery. I mean the word "master", which comes from a common Latin root, in different languages it's evolved into a different meaning. So for Americans, it has an association with slavery (which I'm surprised to learn), but exactly the same word "master" in another language means just "doing good work".

For most Americans, until very recently, it only had an association with slavery in very specific contexts. Virtually nobody heard phrases like "git push origin master" or "I'm working towards my Master's degree" and thought "slavery." The blanket association is a product of very recent political activism.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#735

Post by nicky0 » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:32 PM UTC

drngxn wrote: post #706

jssmith wrote: post #538

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

> What's powerful about this name change is that it pushes us to alter a habit, in my case one embedded deeply in my fingers, something that I do every day without realizing that I'm doing it This is the entire point, this sentence right here.

Because every time I have to stop to write main instead of master, I become less racist?

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#736

Post by airhead969 » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:32 PM UTC

It's virtue-signaling nonsense like planting a tree, declaring climate change "mission accomplished" and calling it a day.

If software engineers actually cared about diversity, they'd work with community leaders on the rough side of town to mentor kids who otherwise don't get all the chances they did. I seriously doubt many would do that. I hate to say it, but a lot of office tech people don't have a lot of life experience. And maybe as a consequence, they tend to act like stereotypical self-absorbed yuppies who don't engage with the world or donate emotional labor. It's easier to outlaw certain words because of incidental associations rather than help real people.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#737

Post by jnwatson » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

eplanit wrote: post #655

jssmith wrote: post #538

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

I appreciate learning your perspective. Frankly, though, the argument you make for accepting and embracing such things to me reinforces the notion that the BLM movement feels like forced cultural revolution. Though you are not coming across with any such tone, the idea seems like "shut up, and take your medicine".

I was on the fence before I read this comment. I don't mind changing insignificant things if it makes people feel better.

Now I'm firmly in the camp that this wasn't worth it. Even having this remotely associated with the real important change that BLM is pushing for really dilutes the message. We're talking about a name and not the real injustices that some people face everyday.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#738

Post by turtlebits » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:35 PM UTC

This is one of those unfortunate "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenarios.

Being PC is trying to appeal to the masses instead of addressing the real issue. Though you can't really blame Github in this instance.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#739

Post by devwastaken » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:37 PM UTC

There is limited energy available for resolving important issues. By focusing energy upon name changes that have no benefit we now rightfully criticize it for doing so, which wastes more energy. It also convinces people that the very idea of name changing is bad, and that this is a bad culture of people. Which harms future real movements for actual good change.

Therefore changes like these are far more harmful than good for everyone.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#740

Post by ipsocannibal » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:37 PM UTC

dottlt wrote: post #629

_nckn wrote: post #592

I'm Asian, wasn't born in America and didn't grew up in America as well. I don't have a horse in this race. I don't feel annoyed to change that term. I'm only annoyed if someone guilt trip me if I don't change the name out of ignorance (i.e, I don't follow politics, no time for social media). I don't think I have any bias against women or minority in tech. Changing main or master or slave doesn't ring a bell or evoke…

I just keep my mouth shut talking to anyone in a minority status, born in the west, that I don't know well. I've seen it go wrong several times so I'm just 100% business. I'll get hate for admitting this, but what am I supposed to do? No one wants to think critically or challenge their beliefs on the matter, so if I'm not willing to 100% toe the line if I do make a mistake then either I have to debase myself in an Or…

The only problem with your statement is you didn't include women, the disabled, gays, any trans person, or any other newly conjured victimized group in your 100% business attitude. It is simply too politically incorrect to deal with people in these groups as critically thinking beings even if they are so best to just avoid any conversation that isn't absolutely necessary. The best bet is to pretend to be a hapless robot and make the interaction end as soon as possible, much in the way minority groups attempt to minimize their interactions with the police. It is a useful survival mechanism in a no win scenario. Stray into victimization territory and you'll either be asked to self-flagulate or be accussed of an '-ism'. I waiting for the word 'conversation' to be redefined by the intersectionalists much like 'racism'.

Post reply on HN