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GitHub, fuck your name change

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Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#591

Post by EGreg »

AzzieElbab wrote: post #470
pron wrote: post #429

Saying that the left spends too much effort on rhetoric might be valid criticism, but focusing on it as reasons to "walk away from the left" (which not too many black Americans are doing, BTW) is disingenuous. Sure, the left talks about rhetoric, but it also fights for higher wages, civil liberties, healthcare, affirmative action, investment in education, workers' rights, and voting rights. It's fine not to like ever…

“ s. Sure, the left talks about rhetoric, but it also fights for higher wages, civil liberties, healthcare, affirmative action, investment in education, workers' rights, and voting rights.” I don’t think the person you are replying to would agree with you about affirmative actions being a good thing. Other than that, the left is super repressive of free speech which is the only civil right left to win , detrimental t…

Both the left and the right engage in suppression of free speech in different ways.

I mean when McCarthyism, Hoover’s FBI and COINTELPRO were repressing leftists left and right, sabotaging political campaigns and careers, this was considered a national security issue.

I mean, until Bernie Sanders, no politician openly called themselves a socialist. This is recent.

Are there any open atheists in US politics? Just curious

https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2016/12/07/...

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#592

Post by _nckn »

I'm Asian, wasn't born in America and didn't grew up in America as well. I don't have a horse in this race. I don't feel annoyed to change that term. I'm only annoyed if someone guilt trip me if I don't change the name out of ignorance (i.e, I don't follow politics, no time for social media). I don't think I have any bias against women or minority in tech. Changing main or master or slave doesn't ring a bell or evoke an emotion in me. If my boss wants it master or main or slave or white or black, I'll do it.

I'm very very surprised about this whole identity politics thing. First time I came to the US and I conversed with this Asian women friend, who told me that she wanted to go to business school, and I asked her "why business school?" and suddenly another Asian women (friend of her) cut me and said "Oh why not, because she is a woman?" and I was like "wow, where did that come from? what does that even mean?" and since that day I know that US racial issue is fucked up big time.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#593

Post by sjm »

conradfr wrote: post #560
jssmith wrote: post #538

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

Or I'll reflect about an American company imposing change to the rest of the world about domestic issues.

So which utopian country do you live in where racism is not an issue?

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#594

Post by pron »

rayiner wrote: post #582
pron wrote: post #429

Saying that the left spends too much effort on rhetoric might be valid criticism, but focusing on it as reasons to "walk away from the left" (which not too many black Americans are doing, BTW) is disingenuous. Sure, the left talks about rhetoric, but it also fights for higher wages, civil liberties, healthcare, affirmative action, investment in education, workers' rights, and voting rights. It's fine not to like ever…

> "Wokeism" (and the even more made-up "cancel culture") is the new War on Christmas. Saying that woke excess is "made-up" and "hysteria" is gaslighting. Coca Cola ran a diversity training encouraging employees to "be less white": https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-why-co... . The Smithsonian has a whole page on "whiteness" treating it like it's a bad thing. If you work a college degree-required jo…

And I think it is tremendously disingenuous to claim the opposite. The very same attacks on the "excesses" of progressivism, and "if only you'd focus on this instead of that you wouldn't antagonize people" were beat-up clichés at the time of the women's suffrage movement if not abolition. In fact, calling the claim that there is some widespread suppression of speech and reduction in freedom at a time when clearly more people can say more things to wider audiences than ever before, and with the least interference from anyone, mere "disingenuous" is an understatement. It is hysterically delusional.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#595

Post by _vbnz »

otikik wrote: post #250
vmception wrote: post #47

I’m a black American and agree with everything that this person in London wrote. It is also a common criticism of the American “left”, and is entirely accurate. For everyone perplexed about black Americans and other people of color walking away from the left, its because you/they don't see us as equals that can be bothered by the exact same things that other Americans can be bothered by: being told what to think, wat…

> the American “left” I like that you quote it there. I don't understand why aren't there more real left (no quotes) organizations or parties gaining traction in the US. It seems as if it should have happened "naturally" one or two generations ago.

They executed Joe Hill and Fred Hampton, and imprisoned Eugene Debs for years.

Just look at COINTELPRO for example, that's what happens.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#596

Post by wiremine »

gher-shyu3i wrote: post #573
wiremine wrote: post #530

Disclaimer: I'm a white engineer who is now a VP. I also have a black daughter. I can't speak for the black experience(s) because I'm not black, but I'm also acutely invested in seeing things get better in terms of race relations and opportunities for all people. A few thoughts: 1. Words matter. They aren't the most important thing per se, but they shouldn't be ignored. Over time, all these little changes do add up.…

Why isn't the discussion that it's also quite racist to associate the word "slave" with Blacks/Africans? People don't seem to know any history when they say that. It's not only Africans that got enslaved, peoples of all ethnicities did. It's just virtue signaling at the end of the day. It's ridiculous watch everyone fight over this while missing the root cause.

It's a valid point, two thoughts:

1. There's the state of slavery today, which is actually pretty horrible worldwide.

2. There's the issue of race relations in the USA, and the historical context of those relations. In the American context, I think it's fair to focus on that context. At least, I think it's counterproductive to try and redefine the term because it deemphasizes that context.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#597

Post by colpabar »

cheez0r wrote: post #552
jssmith wrote: post #538

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

This. These changes to remove subconscious bias from our language are necessary. They are microaggressions which the average user doesn't even realize exist- but which do harms to some individuals in our society. This may be a minority group within our society- even a very small fraction of a percent- but removing biases which are perceived as harmful is one way that we as an organization demonstrate that we are bein…

The problem I have with this name change, and reasoning like this, is that there is no "slave" component of the master branch convention. There is no reference to slavery. My understanding is that it's taken from the way records are made, by using a "master" copy which is copied. Should that change?

Should all uses of the word "master" be changed? Is the main character of the Halo games a microaggression? Metallica's "Master of Puppets"? Is "master bedroom" a microaggression?

Like the author said, it just feels like a meaningless gesture so people can feel better about themselves without fixing any real issues.

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#598

Post by jssmith »

ratamattat wrote: post #547
jssmith wrote: post #538

I want to share my own reactions to the name change since this is a really interesting topic. For context, I'm an African American, so many of my ancestors were slaves. - The first time it occurred to me that "master" in this context could offend anyone was when GitHub changed the name (and broke my workflow). - My immediate reaction was, "this change is by white people for white people," where "white" means anyone w…

How exactly did it break your workflow? The change only affects new repositories and doesn't prevent you from creating a master branch on those new repositories. You're even able to set any branch name as default on a user, org, or enterprise level.

I don't remember exactly how it broke the first time, but the cognitive overhead shows up in various places. E.g., start a new project, create a branch, then merge back to master... oh wait, it's main now? But then I'm back to an old project, or another person's project, so let me look up what name I need to be using, etc...

Re: GitHub, fuck your name change

#599

Post by wiremine »

andy_ppp wrote: post #546
wiremine wrote: post #530

Disclaimer: I'm a white engineer who is now a VP. I also have a black daughter. I can't speak for the black experience(s) because I'm not black, but I'm also acutely invested in seeing things get better in terms of race relations and opportunities for all people. A few thoughts: 1. Words matter. They aren't the most important thing per se, but they shouldn't be ignored. Over time, all these little changes do add up.…

Interesting thoughts, but it doesn't address the content of the article. The article is saying renaming master to main in Github won't help race relations one bit and he's annoyed that it's probably white people who come up with these things rather than (his example) putting money into retraining for ethnic minorities who change careers. All your points are true and using positive language around race does matter. Ju…

> The article is saying renaming master to main in Github won't help race relations one bit and he's annoyed that it's probably white people who come up with these things.

I think he's right that it was probably white people who came up with it.

My first point is that words do matter. We can debate how much the specific word "master" matters, but my point was that words do matter.

My other point about investing also supports his main thesis.

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