TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround • Hacker News Board

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#191

Post by licebmi__at__ » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 11:50 PM UTC

gfiorav wrote: post #172

tediousdemise wrote: post #28

As much as I like Apple products, it looks like the privacy buck stops at China. The western world needs to desperately work on making their supply chains independent of the CCP, lest they'd like their supply chains to be poisoned at some point in the future. I'm a big fan of Purism and everything that they are doing. I hope their software and hardware matures with the same level of polish we've come to know and expe…

You'll see how the west is going to "rebrand" globalization from the "world savior" to "a dependency issue". We're going back. Everyone thought that as new countries got richer, they would follow in the steps of western values (democracy, free markets, etc.). Yet, all we really achieved is to fund the CCP. And now they're not letting investors get their money out and they're putting military bases where they swore th…

>Everyone thought that as new countries got richer, they would follow in the steps of western values (democracy, free markets, etc.).

Maybe the markets enthusiasts were sold that idea, but even if I was too young to be into politics, I do remember that some circles (leftist) were pretty skeptical of the globalization push, which was seen as imperialism and a way for the elites to enrich themselves. After all these years, not only the pro-market camp's promises didn't came true, but maybe the chinese were also keen to participate trying not to come too affected by the imperialism.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#192

Post by tartoran » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 12:12 AM UTC

gfiorav wrote: post #190

tartoran wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the top down governing approach that works in some situations and is a disaster in others? Currently favorable but times change. Second, we should not hope that an opponent does worse than us to make us look better but we should simply better ourselves in the first place. Currently I'm seeing only decline and disunity in the western civilization, very short term thinking and lack of vision, but I'm aware th…

I’m not hoping it goes bad for China. I’m just waiting for the CCP to turn against itself. It’s a matter of time. Too ignorant and unprepared. The question is whether they will fall soon enough

That would be good for Chinese themselves in terms of human development, this growth has been stunted quite a bit but not sure if overall China would ever see such growth they had during the CCP. And that is part due to policies of IP theft and nationalism and so on. In the long term CCP is terrible for China but the last few decades it really worked well for them.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#193

Post by IOT_Apprentice » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 12:29 AM UTC

CountSessine wrote: post #81

topspin wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The western world needs to desperately work on making their supply chains independent of the CCP The western world can't. The world is only so big and the remaining sites of refuge for cheap, exploitable labor and Potemkin regulatory regimes are few. Almost any alternative place you might cite is either already beholden to China (the viable parts of Africa) or too unstable (due to endemic corruption, external threa…

Yes - because manufacturing in the West is ultimately self-defeating. Success breeds complacency and labor unrest. This isn't just a China-thing (I have no idea what your Potemkin regulation is or why you would mix those metaphors). When Westerners see an absurdly profitable company, they think, "why aren't they paying their employees more??!" and start a union to parasitize earnings. When Asians (including the Japan…

I'd presume by Potemkin regulation, he means that regulations in terms of worker health & safety and consideration of the local environment are for show.

There is the other aspect of copyright violation and clones of products built when something is observed selling in the market. Still unresolved.

That said, when a few Chinese companies shipped consumer facing products that contained chemicals or other material that effectively poisoned people, my remembrance was that the management was executed.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#194

Post by IOT_Apprentice » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 12:59 AM UTC

More than anything, we see the absolute moral failure of Western Capitalism with regard to where you have things built and who you sell to.

-Every firm that builds their products in China.

- Every tech firm that depends on Chinese labor and rolls over to provide the government with whatever they want in terms of data access.

- Any major Sports organizations (looking at you NBA) - Hollywood making films that adhere to Chinese censorship to make a dollar. - Hollywood lining up with China & Saudi Arabia to finance films - Hollywood saying NOTHING about the Uighurs and their cultural annihilation. - Apple+ refusing to finance any film or series that portrays China in a negative light.

They all want that cheap labor that can work 24/7 on anything. They all want their products to sell there and now depend on China for significant revenue %.

Capitulation in the name of absolute profit.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#195

Post by QuarterReptile » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 1:43 AM UTC

gfiorav wrote: post #179

tartoran wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a bit late for that. Not sure if it is too late though. Without changing a few essential philosophies such as consumerism the whole world is dependent on China’s manufacture strength. Without scooping heavily into the resouces of the top 1% who benefited most from globalization this whole thing is also impossible to achieve. Without taxing the corporations a higher rate the middleclass won’t be able to recover.…

Oh, it's super late! In the short term, China will definitely be the largest economy (it's just about demographics + GDP). The only thing that could challenge that is: 1) World war (please no) 2) China is chopped up (but that's why they crack down on Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc) So I think we might see another rebranding about what it means to be the n1 economy. Or they might come up with a new metric hehe. The fact of th…

Pair (2) with a lack of immigration, which is what bails out the US from this problem (though it wouldn't be as extreme in any case). Wikipedia says China let in 1800 people in to US' 1.2 million in 2016.

This lack of immigration probably wouldn't be easily reversed, because Chinese governance and perhaps culture aren't well suited to absorbing heterogeneous groups.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#196

Post by dirtyid » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 2:54 AM UTC

QuarterReptile wrote: post #195

gfiorav wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, it's super late! In the short term, China will definitely be the largest economy (it's just about demographics + GDP). The only thing that could challenge that is: 1) World war (please no) 2) China is chopped up (but that's why they crack down on Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc) So I think we might see another rebranding about what it means to be the n1 economy. Or they might come up with a new metric hehe. The fact of th…

Pair (2) with a lack of immigration, which is what bails out the US from this problem (though it wouldn't be as extreme in any case). Wikipedia says China let in 1800 people in to US' 1.2 million in 2016. This lack of immigration probably wouldn't be easily reversed, because Chinese governance and perhaps culture aren't well suited to absorbing heterogeneous groups.

China's total new births last year was ~10 million. Lowest on record but still multiples more than US + immigration will replenish. Chinese scale = enough new birth/talent without immigration to rival entire OECD block until 2050s.

IMO China doesn't need immigration to survive the demographic crisis, it needs excess labour to manage the transition, declining / smaller total population is the goal - simply too many people right now. Tons of labour can be arbitraged between poor and rich provinces or imported from poorer neighbors on remittance basis without the massive welfare commitments of immigration. Western countries with comprehensive social welfare systems sustained by massive immigration have greater risk of collapse - note all the protests happening in first world countries due to system already fraying. Versus China where the bottom 50% will incrementally improve because they're barely above poverty in the first place. The income gap is so massive that it takes relative less resource redistribution to maintain stability. When 600M / 40% of the population accounts for 7% national GDP, a few years of "slow" national growth @5% generates enough wealth to increase their welfare by 40%. Compared to west where all signs indicate each generation will struggle more than the previous, combined with massive immigration and you have recipe for political instability. Unsustainable social safety net and demographic change due to immigration is as much of a ticking time bomb as declining demographics.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#197

Post by gfiorav » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 3:44 AM UTC

tartoran wrote: post #192

gfiorav wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not hoping it goes bad for China. I’m just waiting for the CCP to turn against itself. It’s a matter of time. Too ignorant and unprepared. The question is whether they will fall soon enough

That would be good for Chinese themselves in terms of human development, this growth has been stunted quite a bit but not sure if overall China would ever see such growth they had during the CCP. And that is part due to policies of IP theft and nationalism and so on. In the long term CCP is terrible for China but the last few decades it really worked well for them.

Indeed! The CCP's time has past for sure. Nothing good can come from them at this point.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#198

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 1:01 PM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #166

CountSessine wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're not dropping prices in NA in good part because our governments are dysfunctional and don't want to intervene, and because large landowners see such interventions as contrary to their benefit. And besides, relaxing zoning is far from enough - you need to build vast and performant public transit systems, and in the case of Tokyo you need to make housing a depreciating asset. Yes - and as I said, this is the defec…

Japan, SK, and Taiwan, were not democratic when they were manufacturing behemoths, yes. For reference, the US has roughly twice the manufacturing output of Japan. The idea that manufacturing boomed there because the workers were almost slaves is fairly accurate.

[deleted]

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#199

Post by thatfunkymunki » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 3:47 PM UTC

powerapple wrote: post #36

Majestic121 wrote: post #7

"Three people with knowledge of briefings between Apple and developers also said the Cupertino, California-based company would be wary of taking strong action, despite a clear violation of its stated rules, if CAID has the support of China’s tech giants as well as its government agencies." That's chilling. I tend to have a good opinion of Apple regarding privacy protection, even though I'm not an Apple user, but if e…

I don't think Apple should care about CAA. It is a private organization, although it may have ways to lobby the government, it is far from CCP's business. Of course, it has all the big companies' support, it might be a problem for Apple. Also I don't think Apple's policy would be a big problem for CAID. After all, you just need to ask your user's permission when loading your game, I am sure people will just click yes…

there's literally no such thing as a private Chinese organization that is far from the CCP. It is a totalitarian government that regularly exerts control over even the most minute aspects of life. Believing that a large tech organization has no ties to the CCP is absurd.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#200

Post by garfieldnate » Wed, Mar 17, 2021, 4:36 PM UTC

api wrote: post #175

gfiorav wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll see how the west is going to "rebrand" globalization from the "world savior" to "a dependency issue". We're going back. Everyone thought that as new countries got richer, they would follow in the steps of western values (democracy, free markets, etc.). Yet, all we really achieved is to fund the CCP. And now they're not letting investors get their money out and they're putting military bases where they swore th…

> Everyone thought that as new countries got richer, they would follow in the steps of western values (democracy, free markets, etc.). This is the key idea that has failed: the idea that prosperity equals or leads to social liberalism and human rights, or that the two are interdependent. This idea appears to be wrong, having been disproven by China. Totalitarianism and prosperity can co-exist just fine. Totalitariani…

I don't think it's correct to say that the idea of prosperity and liberalism being linked has been disproven. China is very concerned generally with appearing prosperous, but they're generally not very forthcoming about the wellbeing of their citizens. If you're a Uighur right now, for example, things might not seem so rosy to you.