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Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

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Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#181

Post by tobmlt »

elbear wrote: post #169
tobmlt wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. I will check this out when I have a chance. I struggled mightily between something like Nietzsche-and-Buddhism as a kid in my 20s. Had to simply put it down one day, but it’s always been on the back burner. “Mastering the core teachings of Buddha” may be next on my audible... we shall see

If you're willing to entertain another recommendation, in a different narrative style, look into Dreams of Light by Andrew Holecek. I've mentioned it so many times in this thread that people will think I get a commission :D But I find it incredibly well written by someone with a very clear mind and a knack for wordplay.

Thanks I’ll check it out. I didn’t hang out in the thread so I wouldn’t have known!

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#182

Post by prophesi »

seigando wrote: post #179
prophesi wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the article. > For a cumulative ten hours and forty-five minutes, she sat cross-legged on a rug, her spine erect, and tried to focus on her breath. This practice _will_ cause disassociation at some point, which is precisely what happened when she broke out into psychosis after engaging in the practice for 60+ total hours.

...so you're qualified to make that sort of statement? Got any publications to back it up for example? Concentrating on something for a cumulative 10 hours and 45 minutes is actually not uncommon in the slightest. Does everyone who focuses on something for that long disassociate? Or just people who focus on their breath? Why is it that good posture and focusing on one's breath in particular would cause 'disassociatio…

Meditation-induced psychosis. Look it up. Don't act so ignorant and dismissive.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#183

Post by seigando »

prophesi wrote: post #182
seigando wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...so you're qualified to make that sort of statement? Got any publications to back it up for example? Concentrating on something for a cumulative 10 hours and 45 minutes is actually not uncommon in the slightest. Does everyone who focuses on something for that long disassociate? Or just people who focus on their breath? Why is it that good posture and focusing on one's breath in particular would cause 'disassociatio…

Meditation-induced psychosis. Look it up. Don't act so ignorant and dismissive.

I'm vastly more familiar with it than you are dude.

Sorry that me pointing out you don't know what you're talking about triggered you. It's not a healthy state of mind to assume you know more than others about things you actually know very little.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#184

Post by seigando »

cambalache wrote: post #95
theptip wrote: post #75

Reminds me a lot of "the dark night of the soul" as described in "Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha" by Daniel Ingram (the book is online at https://www.mctb.org/mctb2/ ). Scott Alexander did a great book review if you want the summary: https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/09/18/book-review-mastering-... This finishes with a Scott-at-his-best quote that is pertinent to the OP: > Why would you want to do any of th…

This comment is nice r/sneerclub material

Thanks. It's nice to see there are people who've had similar misgivings around that whole culture.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#185

Post by eurasiantiger »

elbear wrote: post #160
yomly wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Zen meditation seems to be the meditation I have experienced and practised. Both formally and informally. I am unsure this form could lead me to completely fall off the rails, but I also don't think I could sincerely practise it for more than a couple of days (with lots of rest) without just giving up from mental exhaustion. In the same way I wouldn't want to run a marathon tomorrow with no training (even though I ha…

Even if you don't go on retreats and just have a regular daily practice, there could come a point where you experience unusual, unpleasant moments. The explanation might be difficult for you to accept, if you don't accept Buddhist philosophy (if you don't believe in enlightenment, basically). If you are a materialist, you don't believe there is anything else besides matter. You are just your body. Well, at some point…

Simply put, one is directly experiencing the fact that their sense-experiences are a construction and not the real thing.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#186

Post by prophesi »

seigando wrote: post #183
prophesi wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meditation-induced psychosis. Look it up. Don't act so ignorant and dismissive.

I'm vastly more familiar with it than you are dude. Sorry that me pointing out you don't know what you're talking about triggered you. It's not a healthy state of mind to assume you know more than others about things you actually know very little.

I like how you explain to me how it's unhealthy to assume you know more than others right after assuming that you know more than me on this topic.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#187

Post by guytv »

I have been through 3 10-day Goenka retreats, numerous 3-day retreats, and is engaged in daily practice (minimum 1hr/day).

Vipassana meditation have brought positive change to my life. That's why it makes perfect sense to me that it will have some adverse side-effects for some people.

It works i.e. it has positive effects - therefore it must have some negative effects, at least for some people. That's how many things behave in the world, right? In physics its called "action and re-action".

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#188

Post by _xnmw »

My experience with Sufi and secular-buddhist (Headspace) meditation teachings is that the psychological breakdown is expected. Meditation is supposed to tear you down, and then build you back up again. However, some people get "stuck" in teardown phases (the Sufi term is "intoxication" or "annihilation") and then take a long time to recover, or never recover at all. However the "annihilated" phase is merely a stage on the journey, not the end. The perfect master returns to the world a normal person on the outside, but utterly transformed on the inside.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#189

Post by seigando »

prophesi wrote: post #186
seigando wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm vastly more familiar with it than you are dude. Sorry that me pointing out you don't know what you're talking about triggered you. It's not a healthy state of mind to assume you know more than others about things you actually know very little.

I like how you explain to me how it's unhealthy to assume you know more than others right after assuming that you know more than me on this topic.

I'm not assuming. You've demonstrated your knowledge on the subject.

Re: Lost in Thought: Psychological Risks of Meditation

#190

Post by bayindirh »

kritiko wrote: post #162
bayindirh wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mixing practices considered harmful even if practices itself are not. Every practice regimen has a bigger system in work so, mixing and matching can create havoc on your body. Adding LSD and mushrooms on top of it is just lighting a big fire and calling storm on you. I'm not against LSD, mushrooms or other practice systems, but never seen any positive outcome from these kinds of experiments. Please, don't do it.

That seems to put a lot of faith in the claims of these systems. I get the sense that now that you can learn this stuff from the internet vs. going to live in a monastery, you get a lot more mix-n-match, even from teachers who are credentialed in a specific tradition. Michael Pollan’s How to Change Your Mind has lots of stories of people having positive psychedelic therapy, which does require essentially a spiritual…

It depends. Some systems work, some don't. Some systems work for some people, some work for others.

I personally changed a lot with the help of the practice I do. I've faced my phobias, solved a lot of self-confidence issues, found out what's wrong with me. I've also got therapy before starting Zen. While it helped me somehow, it failed to solve the underlying issue. Zen helped me to tackle the underlying issue and move forward.

To work with a good master, you don't need to always go to a monastery and, change your life temporarily. I left nothing behind. Still live in the city. Just go to see my master from time to time. Will continue when the pandemic ends.

I had an instructor in the city, who's also a student of the same master, but he passed away due to COVID-19.

Every tradition and way contains elements from each other, but these ways find the compatible combinations and way to build upon them. Also a master/student relationship helps to guide the student in the harder times. Internet doesn't provide the guidance and safeguards, unfortunately.

As an instructor, I keep track of my every student independently. Otherwise, there's no meaning doing what I do. They also call me when things go awry and we work through it together, and we both learn in the process.

Zen, Buddhism or anything is not the only way. There are many ways to do it.

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