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Why in the world would you own bonds?

bridgewater.com

91–100 of 532 posts

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#91

I discovered awhile ago that so-called "junk bonds" are in fact very rewarding investments that are actually only risky by comparison to other bonds, and not by comparison to other popular asset classes like stocks. Been making $120/year off an $800 bond I bought that has grown in value to $950. Win!

I'd be curious to see a comparison of the return on junk bonds of a given company against the actual stock return of the same company.

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#92
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know a whole lot about professional investing, but if watching The Big Short has taught me anything it’s that the pros will say one thing publicly but do the opposite in private until it’s to their advantage to do a 180 and make their private stance actually public. Recently this was Jamie Dimon lambasting Bitcoin all the while a cryptocurrency trading desk was being set up at Chase. The following exchange fr…

https://finbox.com/ideas/ray-dalio

Holdings here:

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1350694/000156761921...

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#93
post #24

One thing I've learned about professional investors is that no matter what, at the end of the day they're talking their book. So whether you buy these arguments or not, Ray Dalio is simply promoting a position that Bridgewater no doubt has taken. So when he says: "I believe a well-diversified portfolio of non-debt and non-dollar assets along with a short cash position is preferable to a traditional stock/bond mix tha…

I don’t know a whole lot about professional investing, but if watching The Big Short has taught me anything it’s that the pros will say one thing publicly but do the opposite in private until it’s to their advantage to do a 180 and make their private stance actually public. Recently this was Jamie Dimon lambasting Bitcoin all the while a cryptocurrency trading desk was being set up at Chase. The following exchange fr…

> Recently this was Jamie Dimon lambasting Bitcoin all the while a cryptocurrency trading desk was being set up at Chase.

But Jamie Dimon also has a reputation of not being the smartest bulb in the block, and also being overly cautious so....

I think the GP statement is more correct though. A lot of fund managers love to gloat about their positions rather than talk the inverse.

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#94
post #20

The conclusion kind of scares me, especially coming from Dalio. > so they could very well impose prohibitions against capital movements to other assets (e.g., gold, Bitcoin, etc.) and other locations. These tax changes could be more shocking than expected. Who truly believes this is a likely scenario? A number of folks I know are already considering fleeing the US but if this was to pass, that number would skyrocket…

Embrace and extinguish would be American way of imposing restrictions on capital movement. Make something so superior to Bitcoin (a la FedCoin), and have it be the unquestionably superior choice. Bitcoin has a huge usability, "did I enter the right public address" problem. Point is, there's a lot of ways regulators could manufacture the behavior. A great deal of market behavior is already manufactured through the the Federal Funds rate.

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically what Taleb describes as Skin in the Game: >"Don’t Tell Me What You Think, Tell Me What You Have In Your Portfolio"

Only if it going to actually hurt to lose it... when did these guys every really get hurt... they hedge their bets exactly so they never put themselves in a position to literally loose their house(s).

Or in other words, they are sensible

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#96
Are there any counterarguments disagreeing with this assessment?

Certainly those at the Fed and the Treasury speak confidently that the debt is manageable and inflation is easily cooled, but I imagine they have to project confidence.

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#97
post #85
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is perhaps only relevant if you plan on selling them. I have no such plans. For me they are an ever accruing "money hose" I can turn off or on as needed...

Haven’t munis had negative real (ie after inflation) returns for a while now?

I don't know. Have we averaged greater than 3.5 to 4.0 percent inflation recently? Those are the current returns from my munies, not counting the tax exemption...

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#98
post #20

The conclusion kind of scares me, especially coming from Dalio. > so they could very well impose prohibitions against capital movements to other assets (e.g., gold, Bitcoin, etc.) and other locations. These tax changes could be more shocking than expected. Who truly believes this is a likely scenario? A number of folks I know are already considering fleeing the US but if this was to pass, that number would skyrocket…

I don't think they need to go as far as prohibit crypto, all they have to do is increase taxes for crypto since we already have to pay taxes on capital gains for crypto. If this tax rate increases, people will be less likely to use crypto.

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#99
post #43
post #24

One thing I've learned about professional investors is that no matter what, at the end of the day they're talking their book. So whether you buy these arguments or not, Ray Dalio is simply promoting a position that Bridgewater no doubt has taken. So when he says: "I believe a well-diversified portfolio of non-debt and non-dollar assets along with a short cash position is preferable to a traditional stock/bond mix tha…

> One thing I've learned about professional investors is that no matter what, at the end of the day they're talking their book. That doesn't make them wrong. It's basically just a tautology. If you believe X is a great investment, and you aren't investing in it , that would be a far stranger situation.

Unfortunately, there's a catch. People can say things they don't believe, especially if there is a large amount of money to be made. If I'm holding a large amount of X, and can convince enough other people to buy X that the price rises (hopefully by a lot), I can sell my shares of X for a (large) profit. Pump and dump schemes have been common forever, popularized in the the 2000 movie Boiler Room as well as Wolf of Wall St.

Far stranger schemes exist, the most recently to hit popular culture is gamma squeeze. Just because a scheme is strange has little bearing on whether or not it'll end up working out with them having your money.

At the end of the day, the point is they're trying to sell their book, which is not the same as trying to sell investment X (although they may be very closely related).

Re: Why in the world would you own bonds?

#100
post #24

One thing I've learned about professional investors is that no matter what, at the end of the day they're talking their book. So whether you buy these arguments or not, Ray Dalio is simply promoting a position that Bridgewater no doubt has taken. So when he says: "I believe a well-diversified portfolio of non-debt and non-dollar assets along with a short cash position is preferable to a traditional stock/bond mix tha…

I don’t know a whole lot about professional investing, but if watching The Big Short has taught me anything it’s that the pros will say one thing publicly but do the opposite in private until it’s to their advantage to do a 180 and make their private stance actually public. Recently this was Jamie Dimon lambasting Bitcoin all the while a cryptocurrency trading desk was being set up at Chase. The following exchange fr…

On this topic, I've seen news reports that the GME short squeeze will happen 'any day now' according to analysts. Now, that initially makes me believe they're attempting to encourage buying, which raises prices. (In prior weeks, financial media implored retail to get out; there has been a very apparent shift in sentiment). Assuming financial media is a mouthpiece for key market participants, I found the reports surprising. Unless it's a 3D chess move: since we all so publicly are aware their statements have negative correlation to their securities positions, perhaps the rules for interpreting public statements have changed.

If they always act as predictably as stated, there's too obvious of an arbitrage opportunity.

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