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TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

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Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#171

Post by gfiorav »

schiang wrote: post #54
tediousdemise wrote: post #28

As much as I like Apple products, it looks like the privacy buck stops at China. The western world needs to desperately work on making their supply chains independent of the CCP, lest they'd like their supply chains to be poisoned at some point in the future. I'm a big fan of Purism and everything that they are doing. I hope their software and hardware matures with the same level of polish we've come to know and expe…

China doesn't just provide supply chain anymore. They are also a huge market now because of its growing middle class. China has money to spend and US companies need to tap into that market.

Yes. Never forget how the US seemingly thought that its companies, unchecked, would defend the national interests. We should all learn from this.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#172

Post by gfiorav »

tediousdemise wrote: post #28

As much as I like Apple products, it looks like the privacy buck stops at China. The western world needs to desperately work on making their supply chains independent of the CCP, lest they'd like their supply chains to be poisoned at some point in the future. I'm a big fan of Purism and everything that they are doing. I hope their software and hardware matures with the same level of polish we've come to know and expe…

You'll see how the west is going to "rebrand" globalization from the "world savior" to "a dependency issue". We're going back.

Everyone thought that as new countries got richer, they would follow in the steps of western values (democracy, free markets, etc.). Yet, all we really achieved is to fund the CCP. And now they're not letting investors get their money out and they're putting military bases where they swore they would never. Great.

Of course, the world is more "equal" in general, but not in the concrete edge cases. For already developed countries, it's a nightmare that destroyed the industry and the middle class. For developing countries, it's a nightmare where a powerful few (CCP) have more resources than ever to suppress their people and relinquish power.

The only way forward is back. Let's keep the diversity and the share of information and progress. Let's reverse the economic dependency hell we've cornered ourselves into.

P.D: I have nothing but sympathy for the Chinese people. I admire their resolve and creativity. I hate the CCP and how people all over the world have come to relativize even our core values as a society (democracy, freedom of speech, etc). We're really close to a middle-ages screw up if we don't remember what we stand for.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#174

Post by majormajor »

CountSessine wrote: post #143
majormajor wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Terms like "parasitize earnings" don't sound like seeing both sides of the equation. Why's your anger and blame focused there for not seeing both sides? The people who outsourced things weren't simply trying to reduce gains made by unions, they were looking at price differences that could not exist in the US due to cost and standard of living. They certainly weren't looking at both sides of this in terms of long term…

Terms like "parasitize earnings" don't sound like seeing both sides of the equation I don't want employees to get those earnings. I don't want investors or shareholders to get them either. I want consumers to get lower prices. they were looking at price differences that could not exist in the US due to cost and standard of living Again, what does that mean, "standard of living"? That we indulge industrial labor monop…

> Again, what does that mean, "standard of living"? That we indulge industrial labor monopolies and pay more for manufactured goods than we need or want to like the 60's? How do you feel about paying $5000 for that computer? Or that we reward landlords and enrich landowners for participating in the creation of dysfunctional regulations?

It means something very plain: nobody in the US would have accepted those wages to prevent profit-based outsourcing. So it wasn't a question of union parasites forcing people overseas, it just was something that would not have worked, structurally.

Consumers getting lower prices forever and ever is a single-dimension focus, like you otherwise seem to be decrying, since you're not answering any of the other questions there about how to prevent profiteering or powerful wealthy people from playing both sides. You're looking at just one side but proclaiming it as a secret insight that is the only way to move forward. I don't think worker councils would've done anything to let US production and labor prices compete with offshore labor prices in the past 50 years... if you can make t-shirts cheaper by stripping those labor costs to the bone, but the cost of everything else those workers need is untouched, how will it fix it?

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#175

Post by api »

gfiorav wrote: post #172
tediousdemise wrote: post #28

As much as I like Apple products, it looks like the privacy buck stops at China. The western world needs to desperately work on making their supply chains independent of the CCP, lest they'd like their supply chains to be poisoned at some point in the future. I'm a big fan of Purism and everything that they are doing. I hope their software and hardware matures with the same level of polish we've come to know and expe…

You'll see how the west is going to "rebrand" globalization from the "world savior" to "a dependency issue". We're going back. Everyone thought that as new countries got richer, they would follow in the steps of western values (democracy, free markets, etc.). Yet, all we really achieved is to fund the CCP. And now they're not letting investors get their money out and they're putting military bases where they swore th…

> Everyone thought that as new countries got richer, they would follow in the steps of western values (democracy, free markets, etc.).

This is the key idea that has failed: the idea that prosperity equals or leads to social liberalism and human rights, or that the two are interdependent.

This idea appears to be wrong, having been disproven by China.

Totalitarianism and prosperity can co-exist just fine. Totalitarianism and capitalism can even co-exist to a degree, with the totalitarian tendency to kneecap the extremely wealthy being outweighed by the totalitarian ability to forcibly suppress workers' rights movements and pushes for higher wages. Totalitarians can also backstop the economy, stepping in in the event of a crash and forcing number to go up by edict. That benefits the investor class at the expense of the working class by effectively writing down wages and inflating assets.

This means utilitarian arguments for freedom and human rights fail. That's a big deal and undermines at least a half century of libertarian and neoliberal talking points. It means human rights must be argued for on purely spiritual, moral/ethical, or hedonic grounds, not utilitarian grounds.

I think the collapse of this key idea is as much a driver of the global push-back against globalism as working class economic concerns and cultural xenophobia, if not more. Human beings are philosophical beings and coherent narratives and ideas matter to us. When China showed that you could have totalitarianism and prosperity, the bottom fell out of the argument for the whole project.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#176

Post by tartoran »

gfiorav wrote: post #172
tediousdemise wrote: post #28

As much as I like Apple products, it looks like the privacy buck stops at China. The western world needs to desperately work on making their supply chains independent of the CCP, lest they'd like their supply chains to be poisoned at some point in the future. I'm a big fan of Purism and everything that they are doing. I hope their software and hardware matures with the same level of polish we've come to know and expe…

You'll see how the west is going to "rebrand" globalization from the "world savior" to "a dependency issue". We're going back. Everyone thought that as new countries got richer, they would follow in the steps of western values (democracy, free markets, etc.). Yet, all we really achieved is to fund the CCP. And now they're not letting investors get their money out and they're putting military bases where they swore th…

It’s a bit late for that. Not sure if it is too late though. Without changing a few essential philosophies such as consumerism the whole world is dependent on China’s manufacture strength. Without scooping heavily into the resouces of the top 1% who benefited most from globalization this whole thing is also impossible to achieve. Without taxing the corporations a higher rate the middleclass won’t be able to recover. I don’t see anything being done about this.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#178

Post by [deleted] »

CountSessine wrote: post #102
tw04 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When Westerners see an absurdly profitable company, they think, "why aren't they paying their employees more??!" and start a union to parasitize earnings. Saying that employees expecting a livable wage is "parasitizing earnings" is a pretty outrageous claim. >It's an important difference for manufacturing physical things and it's why the West loses out to Asia in manufacturing outside cutting-edge tech. The West los…

Saying that employees expecting a livable wage is "parasitizing earnings" is a pretty outrageous claim. More defective programming in the wetware. Why is pay the only part of the equation? When Japan realized that their housing market was undermining living standards in the late 90’s, they cracked down on NIMBYism and took housing and land zoning authority away from cities. The housing market almost immediately corre…

[deleted]

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#179

Post by gfiorav »

tartoran wrote: post #176
gfiorav wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll see how the west is going to "rebrand" globalization from the "world savior" to "a dependency issue". We're going back. Everyone thought that as new countries got richer, they would follow in the steps of western values (democracy, free markets, etc.). Yet, all we really achieved is to fund the CCP. And now they're not letting investors get their money out and they're putting military bases where they swore th…

It’s a bit late for that. Not sure if it is too late though. Without changing a few essential philosophies such as consumerism the whole world is dependent on China’s manufacture strength. Without scooping heavily into the resouces of the top 1% who benefited most from globalization this whole thing is also impossible to achieve. Without taxing the corporations a higher rate the middleclass won’t be able to recover.…

Oh, it's super late! In the short term, China will definitely be the largest economy (it's just about demographics + GDP).

The only thing that could challenge that is:

1) World war (please no)

2) China is chopped up (but that's why they crack down on Hong Kong, Taiwan, etc)

So I think we might see another rebranding about what it means to be the n1 economy. Or they might come up with a new metric hehe.

The fact of the matter is that China's rule won't last long because:

1) It's governed by a bunch of hand picked corrupt and ignorant bunch called the CCP (although they've done propaganda and brainwashing far better than the USSR, I'll give them that)

2) There's a demographic bomb incoming for China (not enough children).

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#180

Post by gfiorav »

api wrote: post #175
gfiorav wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll see how the west is going to "rebrand" globalization from the "world savior" to "a dependency issue". We're going back. Everyone thought that as new countries got richer, they would follow in the steps of western values (democracy, free markets, etc.). Yet, all we really achieved is to fund the CCP. And now they're not letting investors get their money out and they're putting military bases where they swore th…

> Everyone thought that as new countries got richer, they would follow in the steps of western values (democracy, free markets, etc.). This is the key idea that has failed: the idea that prosperity equals or leads to social liberalism and human rights, or that the two are interdependent. This idea appears to be wrong, having been disproven by China. Totalitarianism and prosperity can co-exist just fine. Totalitariani…

Yes, pretty much agree. I'll say that in the end people want their freedom.

I didn't believe this until the lockdown. Being told what to do is something that makes you instantly appreciate freedom.

There will always be revolt, given enough time. CCP have outdone themselves in that department though. They've learnt from USSR and Cuba.

In USSR/Cuba people know. They talk to outsiders and realize the don't live like they're better. China has learnt and told their citizens that they're bullied everywhere so the CCP was made to protect them. Genius really.

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