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Electric car that charges itself

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Re: Electric car that charges itself

#341

Post by osacial »

40four wrote: post #220
leoedin wrote: post #106

It's easy to dismiss this as green washing, but there is some value to it for city cars. The amount of electricity generated is never going to be enough to fully power the car, but that's not really the point. If having solar panels on your car roof means you can avoid charging much in summer, that will make owning an electric car for people who live in cities much simpler - and so support adoption. As a back of the…

This topic came up on the recent Joe Rogan with Elon Musk. Elon said they considered it, but in the end it is just not worth it. He said there is just not enough surface area on a car to contribute a worthwhile amount of electricity. The numbers quoted for this particular vehicle are very optimistic I think. If you’re lucky, you might get 5 miles a day out of it. What happens if it’s cloudy or rainy for a week? Or yo…

My understanding is that owners of Tesla do not have to pay for electricity to charge cars. It might be similar to other companies, where their electricity used for charging is currently subsidized also by government.

That might change in future and sooner than we realize, especially when current trend is about self-sustainability. Switching all cars to run on electricity does not mean, that in future there will suddenly be more electricity(that will mainly be green), than we have now, so owners of current Teslas in future might be slapped with extra tax, because they are not self-charging. Future Teslas might have solar panels installed, but hardly that will be concern of Elon Musk, as his main income is not related to Tesla Inc, where he now owns only 18% shares and he earns more from space by ripping off NASA.

Re: Electric car that charges itself

#342

Post by dheera »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #330
dheera wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> dramatically affect your neighbours in ways that would substantially restrict how they can use their property. Well yes, if you practice the tuba at 3am, raise alligators in your backyard, and beekeeping in your front yard, then yes. But painting your house? Building a shed? Parking a car in the driveway? Building a fence? Adding architectural ornaments? Install solar panels? None of this stuff affects neighbours.

Yes, I think it is the degree of the regulations. Examples: no cars parked on your front yard. Check. No solar panels on your roof. That would be too far.

> Examples: no cars parked on your front yard.

This would be too far. If the front yard and car are both my property it is not for anyone else to tell me what to do with them.

Re: Electric car that charges itself

#343

Post by dheera »

m463 wrote: post #327
dheera wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I don't see why we can't just outlaw HOAs. If you own something you should be able to do whatever you want with it. It seems like a simple constitutional right to me.

I think there is a spectrum of regulation that happens the closer you live to other people. I had a friend who lived in a dome house. It could not have been built in an incorporated area of his state.

Yeah, I think that as long as you don't live in a 300 year old historical district that needs to maintain its nationally-valued historical look, and the dome is built to building/fire code, nobody should have the right to tell you you can't build a dome house on property that you own.

If I own the land, I fucking own it, and I solely decide what is done with it. The HOAs do not own it, and they can fuck off. I live in the land of the free, and I'll build my dome. Mandatory HOAs should be outlawed.

Re: Electric car that charges itself

#344

Post by ogre_codes »

hnuser123456 wrote: post #295
iso1631 wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Musk is building cars for a mainly american style market - long drives and private parking. topping up 5 miles a day means that a full battery will last me and the 1.8 million UK cars that do under 2000 miles a year, months between having to plug in and recharge.

I'm in the US but have a 2 mile commute each way, and I don't drive to work every day (pre-covid). Uncommon but I'm not alone. - For me, 5 miles a day would keep the battery topped off and I wouldn't have to visit a charger except on longer trips. - Would also be much more palatable to limit the full-charge voltage to something a little lower, prolonging the battery's useful life, knowing it'll passively recharge dai…

> Given a choice between a car that slowly loses a bit of charge daily, or one that gains charge, everyone would pick one that gains.

I suspect most people would choose the one which is $2000 less and looks nicer.

> Could go on camping trips a bit further away and let it charge for a week, or use the AC/heater occasionally.

Totally agree here, but I’m not buying a car based on what I do a half dozen weekends a year either. More important is to ensure you have bigger battery capacity. Buying the Model Y Long range, I paid $8k 80 miles more range. That’s going to be far more useful than the 5 miles per day you might get out of this.

This is all around something I might pay for as an upgrade, but certainly not an important part of the purchase decision.

Re: Electric car that charges itself

#346

Post by ogre_codes »

iso1631 wrote: post #281
40four wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This topic came up on the recent Joe Rogan with Elon Musk. Elon said they considered it, but in the end it is just not worth it. He said there is just not enough surface area on a car to contribute a worthwhile amount of electricity. The numbers quoted for this particular vehicle are very optimistic I think. If you’re lucky, you might get 5 miles a day out of it. What happens if it’s cloudy or rainy for a week? Or yo…

Musk is building cars for a mainly american style market - long drives and private parking. topping up 5 miles a day means that a full battery will last me and the 1.8 million UK cars that do under 2000 miles a year, months between having to plug in and recharge.

The catch-22 of solar roofed cars is the time of year when they are likely to be most useful—during the summer—the last thing you want to do is park your car in the sun to charge. Whatever benefit you gain from solar charging, you lose as soon as you have to fire up the AC for 10 minutes to make it livable.

In general, it’s a good idea to park your car under cover for a lot of reasons. Fabrics don’t do well when exposed to the high heat you get parking in the sun for prolonged periods. If you live or work in a city, chances are high that you are parking in a covered garage or basement.

Solar roofs on cars are a neat idea, but not likely near as useful for most people as spending the money on more batteries for longer range.

Re: Electric car that charges itself

#347

Post by ogre_codes »

iso1631 wrote: post #328
ogre_codes wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your commute is less than 5 miles a day, you should probably be riding a bike or an ebike. Pushing around a big car to travel what is essentially walking distance is a waste (and expensive). Even 10 miles a day is easy ebike range.

In my case, it's not every day, it's narrow country lanes, it rains, it involves transporting kids and equipment. You seem to be claiming it's better to travel 50 miles a day by car than 10 miles a day, which is clearly wrong.

> You seem to be claiming it's better to travel 50 miles a day by car than 10 miles a day, which is clearly wrong.

I don’t understand at all how you interpret what I said to mean this.

Re: Electric car that charges itself

#348

Post by ben_w »

eldaisfish wrote: post #309
ben_w wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what you’re arguing against given I claimed $.30/W and the document you linked me to also claims $.30/W cells.

For posterity, NREL's number is $ 0.47 / W for utility scale solar. It's not $ 0.30 /W and there's no way a speciality cell is cheaper than utility scale cells.

Page 12, Figure 9. Ex-factory gate prices (spot prices) for U.S. and global multicrystalline-silicon modules from GTM/SEIA (2018) data

$0.30/W global multicrystalline-silicon spot price.

Re: Electric car that charges itself

#349

Post by dexterdog »

osacial wrote: post #341
40four wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This topic came up on the recent Joe Rogan with Elon Musk. Elon said they considered it, but in the end it is just not worth it. He said there is just not enough surface area on a car to contribute a worthwhile amount of electricity. The numbers quoted for this particular vehicle are very optimistic I think. If you’re lucky, you might get 5 miles a day out of it. What happens if it’s cloudy or rainy for a week? Or yo…

My understanding is that owners of Tesla do not have to pay for electricity to charge cars. It might be similar to other companies, where their electricity used for charging is currently subsidized also by government. That might change in future and sooner than we realize, especially when current trend is about self-sustainability. Switching all cars to run on electricity does not mean, that in future there will sudd…

> My understanding is that owners of Tesla do not have to pay for electricity to charge cars.

Your understanding is incorrect.

Re: Electric car that charges itself

#350

Post by novok »

outworlder wrote: post #315
hnuser123456 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really can't understand your POV. Of course it doesn't mean never having to visit a charger for cross-country trips, which is obviously a dream. It does mean the car adds charge passively rather than losing it, the panels are silly cheap compared to the cost of batteries, and the hardest part would just be integrating them into the body panels, which is certainly achievable. See my other comment in this thread wher…

It adds cost and complexity to the cars, so that's one reason not to do it. Still - I have an EV that's sitting idle most of the time because of the pandemic. I had to plug it in a handful of times this year, that would mean plugging it in zero times. Also, if it is very sunny, it means the car is hot. One common thing to do is to start climate control before getting into the car so it will be at a comfortable temper…

One bad thing about leaving your car outside all the time vs a garage although is increased wear on the body and the overall life of the car.
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