Right to Repair Gaining Momentum • Hacker News Board

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#61

Post by ehnto » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

ghaff wrote: post #35

bzzzt wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wondering: if there was a 'right to repair' on computers in the 60's, would Intel have made an integrated microprocessor? I mean: you can't just fix a dead register by replacing it anymore... Lots of electronics have become more reliable by being fully integrated units. I prefer a durable phone to a repairable phone that needs constant replacements.

"Right to repair" doesn't mean that everything has to be actually repairable down to replacing things at the lowest level of component. It means making the same tools and information available that an authorized repair center has access to. But if the standard of repair is swapping out an entire device or PCB there's no requirement to go above and beyond that. A lot of people seem to confuse "right of repair" with mo…

I think the new EU right to repair laws require appliances to be repairable for up to ten years, this article at least seems to suggest that the intention is for a level of ease of repair especially in regards to fasteners and fittings:

> Under the new EU rules, manufacturers will have to ensure parts are available for up to a decade, though some will only be provided to professional repair companies to ensure they are installed correctly.

> New devices will also have to come with repair manuals and be made in such a way that they can be dismantled using conventional tools when they really can't be fixed anymore, to improve recycling.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/eu...

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#62

Post by ehnto » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

the_af wrote: post #48

bzzzt wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just wondering: if there was a 'right to repair' on computers in the 60's, would Intel have made an integrated microprocessor? I mean: you can't just fix a dead register by replacing it anymore... Lots of electronics have become more reliable by being fully integrated units. I prefer a durable phone to a repairable phone that needs constant replacements.

Pirsig couldn't fix or understand every component of his motorcycle, but he advocated having some degree of control over the components he did understand and knew how to fix or jury-rig. His anecdote about using tin from beer cans to jury-rig a simple fix -- and the wounded reaction to it by his friend John -- is enlightening. It's not all or nothing.

Pragmatism and the application of it is an art all of it's own. A pragmatist may change their own clutch, but get a professional to do their wiring. It's about addressing the situation and making a reasonable choice.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#63

Post by freedom42 » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:52 PM UTC

intricatedetail wrote: post #20

simias wrote: post #4

I definitely think it's a good idea. The other week my girlfriend's Western Digital external drive stopped working, I wanted to open it to figure out if it was the drive itself or the sata-to-USB logic. Took me 20 minutes to open the case, and I damaged it significantly in the process. Turns out that it was only the USB adapter that was out of order, I bought a cheap-o USB 3 case and now it works again. Yesterday I w…

Classic WD. So you dodged a bullet. I had WD drive that USB board failed and that board contained encryption key. So I lost data even if I could install the board from other drive. And they had a nerve to advertise this as a feature pro consumer! (It encrypted the data even if you didn't turn encryption on)

Wow that's actually really sad. Imagine that happening to people without backups (means many regular people).

The way I do it is I format the drive on Linux. Then format it as ext4 with LUKS encryption. Were you on Windows?

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#64

Post by bullosB » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

freedom42 wrote: post #50

the_af wrote: post #8

I was re-reading (ok, actually trying to finish yet again) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and I think some of what Pirsig says at the beginning of the book applies here. Namely, the division between people who just want things to work and hope "somebody" else will step in when a fix is needed, and those who understand the abstraction sometimes leaks, and you need to be able to dig in and at least know how…

The thing is even if people don't wanna repair themselves they might wanna change a battery. Or get something minor done cheaply by a 3rd party. But Apple goes so far out of the way to kill third party repair. They even put special screws in their machines to screw you. Edit: The EU pushed right to repair, right? Now see what Apple did to screw France [1]. Their latest and greatest devices somehow have a repairabilit…

The score is based on 5 categories:

1.documentation available

2.ease of repair

3.availability of spare parts

4.price or spare parts

5.category specific to the product (not the same for a washing machine or a computer).

Each of them give you a score out of 20, and the total is divided by 10. So you can have 0 on the 2., making the phone hard to repair, but still having a 8/10 score.

In the end its similar to Booking reviews, where 6/10 is very low and you want to avoid this hotel.

Details (in French) https://www.ecologie.gouv.fr/indice-reparabilite

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#65

Post by doggydogs94 » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 6:00 PM UTC

Right to repair is great. Of course, 99% of us will end up bricking our phone if we tried to replace the screen or battery.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#66

Post by bogwog » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

doggydogs94 wrote: post #65

Right to repair is great. Of course, 99% of us will end up bricking our phone if we tried to replace the screen or battery.

That's FUD

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#67

Post by AshWolfy » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

bzzzt wrote: post #24

spamizbad wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, then why is the camera serialized and not the battery (which, incidentally, you CAN replace on the iPhone 12)?

Just guessing: - it's a component of the Face ID authentication scheme - they don't want people using iPhones with sub-par camera's posting on social media - they don't want iPhones with sub-par camera's on the second hand market

The cameras have nothing to do with face ID, and its not just that 3rd parts cameras arent compatable, but even oem cameras arent without access to apple's systems called ast2 and gsx

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#68

Post by Nextgrid » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

kevbin wrote: post #38

> Connecticut, Colorado, Delaware, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Missouri, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Oklahoma, Oregon, and Washington state are all considering broad [right-to-repair] laws that would apply to most of the stuff we use everyday. Meanwhile, in Sacramento, it is illegal to repair your own car at your own home. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26421495

This is a bit misleading. The Sacramento regulation appears to be about zoning to dissuade commercial repair operations on residential grounds.

This is bad, but is not really "anti repair" any more than not being allowed to operate a bar/food service business out of your own home.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#69

Post by freedom42 » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 6:11 PM UTC

bullosB wrote: post #64

freedom42 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is even if people don't wanna repair themselves they might wanna change a battery. Or get something minor done cheaply by a 3rd party. But Apple goes so far out of the way to kill third party repair. They even put special screws in their machines to screw you. Edit: The EU pushed right to repair, right? Now see what Apple did to screw France [1]. Their latest and greatest devices somehow have a repairabilit…

The score is based on 5 categories: 1.documentation available 2.ease of repair 3.availability of spare parts 4.price or spare parts 5.category specific to the product (not the same for a washing machine or a computer). Each of them give you a score out of 20, and the total is divided by 10. So you can have 0 on the 2., making the phone hard to repair, but still having a 8/10 score. In the end its similar to Booking r…

Thanks for explaining. That's unbelievable. That's a really stupid law right? I mean elementary-school-kid-bypassable kinda stupid.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#70

Post by carom » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

A US law mandating right to repair could really improve domestic electronics knowledge and capability. So much of that work is out sourced to a foreign manufacturer, as rebuilding is cheaper than repairing. If consumers or even a handful of specialized shops had repair-level knowledge in micro electronics, it would set the stage for all sorts of innovation and new products.