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Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

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Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#31

Post by bzzzt »

the_af wrote: post #8

I was re-reading (ok, actually trying to finish yet again) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and I think some of what Pirsig says at the beginning of the book applies here. Namely, the division between people who just want things to work and hope "somebody" else will step in when a fix is needed, and those who understand the abstraction sometimes leaks, and you need to be able to dig in and at least know how…

Just wondering: if there was a 'right to repair' on computers in the 60's, would Intel have made an integrated microprocessor? I mean: you can't just fix a dead register by replacing it anymore...

Lots of electronics have become more reliable by being fully integrated units. I prefer a durable phone to a repairable phone that needs constant replacements.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#32

Post by vbezhenar »

the_af wrote: post #8

I was re-reading (ok, actually trying to finish yet again) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and I think some of what Pirsig says at the beginning of the book applies here. Namely, the division between people who just want things to work and hope "somebody" else will step in when a fix is needed, and those who understand the abstraction sometimes leaks, and you need to be able to dig in and at least know how…

There’s another distinction. Some people will replace broken parts with new parts. And some people will repair that part, sometimes inventing and building new tools on the fly. Former is relatively easy and one should just follow manuals to succeed. Latter is some kind of art, which requires flexible mind and tons of experience.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#33

Post by C19is20 »

bzzzt wrote: post #30
minikites wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do replacement cameras and screens cause fires too?

Worse, they cause unsatisfied customers who don't want their next phone to be an Apple.

I bought some OEM stuff for my car. I bet Ford are fuming that I've devalued their product. If someone replaced a camera and weren't happy with it, at least they could try another.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#34

Post by e2le »

JoshTko wrote: post #3

I don't want a bulky, heavy, non waterproof, and less reliable smartphone (due to more moveable parts) just to have a easily replaceable battery.

That depends, does what you want cause greater harm to society than the alternative? Does manufacturing less repairable devices cause more to be disposed of more quickly? Ideally with the environmental concerns we face, making what we already have last as long as reasonably possible is the least we can do.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#35

Post by ghaff »

bzzzt wrote: post #31
the_af wrote: post #8

I was re-reading (ok, actually trying to finish yet again) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and I think some of what Pirsig says at the beginning of the book applies here. Namely, the division between people who just want things to work and hope "somebody" else will step in when a fix is needed, and those who understand the abstraction sometimes leaks, and you need to be able to dig in and at least know how…

Just wondering: if there was a 'right to repair' on computers in the 60's, would Intel have made an integrated microprocessor? I mean: you can't just fix a dead register by replacing it anymore... Lots of electronics have become more reliable by being fully integrated units. I prefer a durable phone to a repairable phone that needs constant replacements.

"Right to repair" doesn't mean that everything has to be actually repairable down to replacing things at the lowest level of component. It means making the same tools and information available that an authorized repair center has access to. But if the standard of repair is swapping out an entire device or PCB there's no requirement to go above and beyond that.

A lot of people seem to confuse "right of repair" with modularity/ease of repair.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#36

Post by bzzzt »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #21
1-6 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, Tesla is starting to build their battery packs in-frame so it'll become harder to repair. https://electrek.co/2021/01/19/tesla-structural-battery-pack...

I'm kinda hoping that there will be legislation or standardization for battery packs. As it stands, when that battery pack is end-of-life, the whole car will be scrapped because it's not financially viable to have a new one installed. But if it's standardized, if it's EOL the battery pack can be replaced with either a new, better battery (e.g. solid state) or a refurbished / secondhand battery. And the EOL battery pa…

If the battery costs 75% of the car does it make sense to try to refurbish it? There are old model S cars on the road with half a million miles on and still usable range. After that kind of mileage I expect the rest of the car to be pretty worn too...

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#37

Post by ghaff »

gcanyon wrote: post #23
JoshTko wrote: post #3

I don't want a bulky, heavy, non waterproof, and less reliable smartphone (due to more moveable parts) just to have a easily replaceable battery.

Exactly this. People who want phones like this should be able to have them, but not at the cost of me being forced to have one too.

Well, they only "should be able to have them" to the degree that there's a sufficient market for someone to make and sell them. There are no guarantees that the product you want to buy is one for which there's a sufficient market to sell.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#38

Post by kevbin »

> Connecticut, Colorado, Delaware, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Missouri, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, Oklahoma, Oregon, and Washington state are all considering broad [right-to-repair] laws that would apply to most of the stuff we use everyday.

Meanwhile, in Sacramento, it is illegal to repair your own car at your own home.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26421495

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#39

Post by michaelt »

simias wrote: post #4

I definitely think it's a good idea. The other week my girlfriend's Western Digital external drive stopped working, I wanted to open it to figure out if it was the drive itself or the sata-to-USB logic. Took me 20 minutes to open the case, and I damaged it significantly in the process. Turns out that it was only the USB adapter that was out of order, I bought a cheap-o USB 3 case and now it works again. Yesterday I w…

> USB wallsocket [...] I couldn't figure out how to even open the thing up.

In my country, wall sockets are often riveted closed, because (a) they gotta be cheap, and (b) they've got a bunch of screw terminals, and they're worried with any more screws some dumbass will undo the wrong ones.

Re: Right to Repair Gaining Momentum

#40

Post by setr »

bzzzt wrote: post #31
the_af wrote: post #8

I was re-reading (ok, actually trying to finish yet again) Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance and I think some of what Pirsig says at the beginning of the book applies here. Namely, the division between people who just want things to work and hope "somebody" else will step in when a fix is needed, and those who understand the abstraction sometimes leaks, and you need to be able to dig in and at least know how…

Just wondering: if there was a 'right to repair' on computers in the 60's, would Intel have made an integrated microprocessor? I mean: you can't just fix a dead register by replacing it anymore... Lots of electronics have become more reliable by being fully integrated units. I prefer a durable phone to a repairable phone that needs constant replacements.

Right to repair doesn’t mean that everything must be repairable; it means that manufacturers can’t block you from installing a replacement part (eg by requiring a key from CORP)

That is, if you could have repaired it, YOU could have repaired it

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