How Amazon Crushes Unions • Hacker News Board

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#131

Post by tr3ndyBEAR » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

elisbce wrote: post #113

Like the unions didn't already destroy America's auto industry. Now they want to do the same to the tech industry. Supervisors can't talk directly with union workers, they have to go through unions first. Who on earth think this is a good idea? It kills productivity and I'm not even talking about the foreseeable protests down the road. Unions don't work in tech business where you need to break rules and move fast. It…

There's no such thing as an auto company that doesn't depend on government subsidies. The auto industry is up there with agriculture as one of the most dependent on governments subsidizing them for them to even exist

If improving worker safety (in this case, literally saving hundreds of lives each year) and paying workers a living wage makes your already heavily subsidized company go bust, maybe the company shouldn't have existed in the first place?

Worker's health shouldn't be an economic externality

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#132

Post by stonecraftwolf » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

dunnevens wrote: post #74

nafizh wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate where do you buy things online from? I want to move away from Amazon, but it's also exhausting to sort through multiple websites for a product, their shipping fees, and make decisions.

Electronics now come to me from Best Buy, Microcenter, and Newegg. Best Buy in particular has faster shipping than Prime. It's frequently overnight for in stock items. At least in my area. And as far as I know, there's no problems with counterfeit goods with them. Physical books I buy from a small online bookstore I want to support. Oddly enough, they're not much slower than Prime. Even for books not in stock. Plus,…

What do you use to strip the DRM from kindle books?

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#133

Post by former-aws » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:00 PM UTC

Judgmentality wrote: post #109

pc86 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Azure is about 2/3 of the size of AWS based on market share. Almost 70% of the market uses something other than AWS. What is it that you know that all those other well-paid professionals don't?

Azure artificially inflates its market share by throwing in MS Office revenue into the mix, which is pretty misleading. https://www.techrepublic.com/article/microsoft-keeps-hiding-... G Cloud was rumored to have to be #2 by 2023 or they'd shut down, and currently they are trailing quite far behind. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21815260

So does AWS. They include revenue from AWS Workmail and other SaaS offerings. Too bad MSFT or GOOG make more money than AWS with their SaaS or "Productive" offerings.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#134

Post by EliRivers » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

nickpp wrote: post #59

cratermoon wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those same "bad laws" are why you have a 5-day work week, your retirement plan, overtime (if you are hourly), safe working conditions, sick leave. The list goes on. If you think you'd like to go back before the time when unions didn't exist, let me direct you to the work of photographer Lewis Hine

We have those thanks to the increase of productivity and competition between employees, not some unions hundreds of years ago. Maybe that was the reason initially but time has passed and today's situation favours the employee in most fields.

today's situation favours the employee in most fields

I guess employees are choosing to let rich people take all the wealth they generate, then. How very generous of employees.

I guess what I'm basically saying is that the evidence indicates that what you just said is bullshit.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#135

Post by busterarm » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

BitwiseFool wrote: post #97

busterarm wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's telling that when shown overwhelmingly that private-sector unions in America are hopelessly broken and corrupt that the only solution the pro-union folks have for the problem is "more unionization". I've been in three different unions and would never "join" one again [my participation was mandatory for the job in each case] and would change careers if my field unionized significantly. I remember a local news sto…

There are so many horror stories about union employees who deserve to be fired but are defended vigorously by the union itself. Why does this happen? What do these unions have to gain by defending the actions of their worst members?

It's like lawyers defending horrible people. They are entitled to it. The issue that I have with it is I've seen plenty of normal terminations where the unions should have done something and didn't.

Of the three unions that I have been in, largely they didn't do shit for me other than take my money. The union didn't help me when I was being sexually harassed by my manager nor did the union help me when my time clock was being manipulated to short me pay.

Also, I've worked some of the shittiest minimum wage jobs America has to offer and I think it's a crock of shit that people _need_ collective bargaining to get a fair deal. It's entirely possible to negotiate a fair employment situation as long as we teach people about boundaries, the law and how to work effectively.

Since becoming a "grown up", I've been able to negotiate my salary and terms of employment quite well. And more importantly, much better than anyone collectively bargaining would be able to for me.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#136

Post by apexalpha » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:05 PM UTC

elisbce wrote: post #113

Like the unions didn't already destroy America's auto industry. Now they want to do the same to the tech industry. Supervisors can't talk directly with union workers, they have to go through unions first. Who on earth think this is a good idea? It kills productivity and I'm not even talking about the foreseeable protests down the road. Unions don't work in tech business where you need to break rules and move fast. It…

"Supervisors can't talk directly with union workers, they have to go through unions first."

Is this actually the case? Because this seems like a childish caricature of unions. Could you point me to examples where unions actually implemented this and why?

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#137

Post by kaesar14 » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:06 PM UTC

elisbce wrote: post #113

Like the unions didn't already destroy America's auto industry. Now they want to do the same to the tech industry. Supervisors can't talk directly with union workers, they have to go through unions first. Who on earth think this is a good idea? It kills productivity and I'm not even talking about the foreseeable protests down the road. Unions don't work in tech business where you need to break rules and move fast. It…

The auto industry died because it got outcompeted by the Japanese auto industry, which is also unionized.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#138

Post by BeetleB » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

nafizh wrote: post #24

peer2pay wrote: post #6

I hate Amazon and stories like this make me hate it even more. I stopped ordering anything from them and, if anything, this has actually improved my consumer experience. Most stuff you can buy on Amazon these days is the same garbage that is sold on Wish but you pay ~25-50% more for it to come within a couple of days. Not shopping at either has definitely raised the average life span and quality of goods in my househ…

Can you elaborate where do you buy things online from? I want to move away from Amazon, but it's also exhausting to sort through multiple websites for a product, their shipping fees, and make decisions.

Besides the other answers, you can also find options at shopping.google.com.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#139

Post by PoignardAzur » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

capableweb wrote: post #117

elisbce wrote: post #113

Like the unions didn't already destroy America's auto industry. Now they want to do the same to the tech industry. Supervisors can't talk directly with union workers, they have to go through unions first. Who on earth think this is a good idea? It kills productivity and I'm not even talking about the foreseeable protests down the road. Unions don't work in tech business where you need to break rules and move fast. It…

> where you need to break rules and move fast Dude, we tried this. Now people in the US can't have reasonable arguments in public without wanting to kill one another. People somehow gets "cancelled" now, because some 20s-something wanted to "move fast" without thinking of the consequences. Maybe it's time we try "slow and steady" and see if the world actually ends up more equal and diverse, instead of the opposite, w…

> Dude, we tried this. Now people in the US can't have reasonable arguments in public without wanting to kill one another.

Best answer.

(don't think unions would have changed anything on that point though)

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#140

Post by HelloNurse » Tue, Mar 16, 2021, 5:11 PM UTC

elisbce wrote: post #113

Like the unions didn't already destroy America's auto industry. Now they want to do the same to the tech industry. Supervisors can't talk directly with union workers, they have to go through unions first. Who on earth think this is a good idea? It kills productivity and I'm not even talking about the foreseeable protests down the road. Unions don't work in tech business where you need to break rules and move fast. It…

You seem to be confusing Amazon the dotcom, where smart people advance the state of the art of web infrastructure, and Amazon the parcel-sending concern, where the duration of restroom breaks of minimum-wage warehouse workers is aggressively monitored.