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TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

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Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#101

Post by lotsofpulp »

topspin wrote: post #45
tediousdemise wrote: post #28

As much as I like Apple products, it looks like the privacy buck stops at China. The western world needs to desperately work on making their supply chains independent of the CCP, lest they'd like their supply chains to be poisoned at some point in the future. I'm a big fan of Purism and everything that they are doing. I hope their software and hardware matures with the same level of polish we've come to know and expe…

> The western world needs to desperately work on making their supply chains independent of the CCP The western world can't. The world is only so big and the remaining sites of refuge for cheap, exploitable labor and Potemkin regulatory regimes are few. Almost any alternative place you might cite is either already beholden to China (the viable parts of Africa) or too unstable (due to endemic corruption, external threa…

> Insourcing is obviously out of the question; the wealthy Western establishment is violently intolerant of industrial expansion.

As far as I can tell, it’s simply more expensive to insource, taking into account wages, labor regulations, and environmental regulations. If and when other countries catch up to the production costs in the US, then there won’t be a reason to ship things halfway around the world.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#102

Post by CountSessine »

tw04 wrote: post #87
CountSessine wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - because manufacturing in the West is ultimately self-defeating. Success breeds complacency and labor unrest. This isn't just a China-thing (I have no idea what your Potemkin regulation is or why you would mix those metaphors). When Westerners see an absurdly profitable company, they think, "why aren't they paying their employees more??!" and start a union to parasitize earnings. When Asians (including the Japan…

>When Westerners see an absurdly profitable company, they think, "why aren't they paying their employees more??!" and start a union to parasitize earnings. Saying that employees expecting a livable wage is "parasitizing earnings" is a pretty outrageous claim. >It's an important difference for manufacturing physical things and it's why the West loses out to Asia in manufacturing outside cutting-edge tech. The West los…

Saying that employees expecting a livable wage is "parasitizing earnings" is a pretty outrageous claim.

More defective programming in the wetware. Why is pay the only part of the equation? When Japan realized that their housing market was undermining living standards in the late 90’s, they cracked down on NIMBYism and took housing and land zoning authority away from cities. The housing market almost immediately corrected itself and housing prices in suburban Tokyo have been in free-fall ever since. You can get a 2000sqft family home for the equivalent of about 200k just 30 minutes outside downtown Tokyo today. We don’t do that because... why?

The West lost out to Asia because...

Again, more defective wetware. Japan, South Korea, Taiwan - these are democratic states with a high standard of living that have been able to control costs in ways that the West hasn’t. More people are homeless in the US per capita than any of those countries and it has everything to do with defective programming and talk of “liveable wages”. Of course everyone needs to be able to afford to live. But your own mistaken assumptions are emblematic of the political and social dysfunction of the West. Until we address that, no - those supply chains won’t be returning.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#103

Post by lotsofpulp »

smoldesu wrote: post #94
tediousdemise wrote: post #28

As much as I like Apple products, it looks like the privacy buck stops at China. The western world needs to desperately work on making their supply chains independent of the CCP, lest they'd like their supply chains to be poisoned at some point in the future. I'm a big fan of Purism and everything that they are doing. I hope their software and hardware matures with the same level of polish we've come to know and expe…

This is what made me stop using Apple products altogether. Their privacy and security bit is all smoke and mirrors, and I'd much rather just directly understand what my privacy model looks like instead of trying to surmise what's going on through the other side of the frosted glass. Their compliance with China's Uighur roundup is despicable, and I don't trust them in the slightest to defend tech in the long-term. The…

> They're out to make money, which is why they're the most profitable business in the world.

Everyone I know is out to make money. Apple is the most profitable because they’re selling something with high demand that people are willing and able to pay for.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#104

Post by Clubber »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #95
reaperducer wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China has money to spend and US companies need to tap into that market. "Choose to" tap into that market. No company "needs" to be in China. Just like there are thousands of companies in Europe that do not do business in the United States, and thousands of companies in Brazil that do not do business in Russia.

It is conceivable in a winner take all business, or a top 2 take all business, you either tap into the world’s largest market or you don’t survive. For example, Apple being able to lock up all the supply of higher end chips and smaller companies not being able to compete.

>It is conceivable in a winner take all business, or a top 2 take all business, you either tap into the world’s largest market or you don’t survive.

The US is the world's largest market, by a lot.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_marke...

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#105

Post by freeflight »

CountSessine wrote: post #66
reaperducer wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, the analogy would be if apps had tracking SDKs in them, that fingerprinted users across apps, in order to better target them for advertisements, and then the US government can pick up that data and do whatever they'd like with it. I've never really thought about it before, but it would be pretty easy for a three-letter agency to set up an online advertising company for this purpose. They start their own ai…

But they don't even need to do that - they just approach an existing adtech company with a FISA warrant and get their data. If they started their own adtech company, eventually they would be out-ed and exposed. But with a FISA warrant, it's mostly business-as-usual for everyone.

> But they don't even need to do that - they just approach an existing adtech company with a FISA warrant and get their data.

Depending on who they approach, they won't even need a FISA warrant because in the US information voluntarily given to third parties has "no reasonable expectation of privacy" [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#106

Post by Larrikin »

rootusrootus wrote: post #72
Jonanin wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The story is that major Chinese companies and the state are working together to develop an alternative to Apple’s IDFA. While aggressively pushing back against companies in the U.S. tracking users, Apple seemingly doesn’t mind having a double standard for China.

> Apple seemingly doesn’t mind having a double standard for China. That seems to be the case with many businesses. Nobody wants to lose that entire market just to stand on principle.

Google did and didn't stop existing as a company

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#107

Post by CountSessine »

elteto wrote: post #89
CountSessine wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes - because manufacturing in the West is ultimately self-defeating. Success breeds complacency and labor unrest. This isn't just a China-thing (I have no idea what your Potemkin regulation is or why you would mix those metaphors). When Westerners see an absurdly profitable company, they think, "why aren't they paying their employees more??!" and start a union to parasitize earnings. When Asians (including the Japan…

> ... start a union to parasitize earnings. Yes, those pesky employees should just STFU and be thankful for the scraps.

Again - the fact that you can’t see both sides of the equation is why we don’t make things anymore.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#108

Post by okprod »

reaperducer wrote: post #30
disgu wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's according to "I know China evil" or is this based on anything? We know that China was playing catch-up when Snowden leaked his stuff so they might have caught up. Can you link the corresponding leaks? I'd love to read some of the Chinese ones because the most recent big things I could find were Snowden leaks.

Playing the Snowden card doesn't invalidate what China is doing. What the U.S. was doing was bad. What China is doing is also bad. They can both be bad.

Yea but OP's statement that we're all responding to is "Get. Out. of. china. Or be ruled by the authoritarianism of the CCP"

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#109

Post by lotsofpulp »

tediousdemise wrote: post #86
reaperducer wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If China kicks Apple out, we can expect 50k dollar iPhones soon thereafter Do you really believe that people in India spend $50,000 on the iPhones that are made in India, or are you just being hyperbolic?

It's just my pessimism about greedy American companies, who pass all costs onto the consumer without remorse.

That’s called business. Entity A provides a product or service to entity B. The price entity B pays Entity A is greater than the price entity A pays to create the product or service.

The alternative is Entity A being a charity.

Re: TikTok wants to keep tracking iPhone users with state-backed workaround

#110

Post by jonathannat »

tediousdemise wrote: post #28

As much as I like Apple products, it looks like the privacy buck stops at China. The western world needs to desperately work on making their supply chains independent of the CCP, lest they'd like their supply chains to be poisoned at some point in the future. I'm a big fan of Purism and everything that they are doing. I hope their software and hardware matures with the same level of polish we've come to know and expe…

For those who wants to stop supporting China, don't lose hope. Supply chains are migrating, due to tariffs, sanctions, and hatred towards CCP. Don't let naysayers who may have a vested interest in China talk you down. Just keep checking where the product you are buying is coming from.

- check https://chinalawblog.com and you will see that companies are indeed moving out of China at a quick pace. In fact, the site advocates that you do not think of China as the default manufacturing...

- most citizens in other countries hates China now. https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/10/06/unfavorable-vi.... this dictates shifting consumer behavior (more and more people will choose items made not in China). US citizens has a 20% favorable view of China. https://thehill.com/homenews/news/543354-view-of-china-as-gr...

- No one wants to go to China right now. If you want to go, you are subjected to an anal swab covid test, mandatory spyware on your phone, plus visa incentive that requires you to use their state covid vaccine (50% efficacy!). Not to mention foreigner kidnappings and disbar from leaving the country. No company in their right mind would send their staff to China to increase footprint there

- from footwear https://footwearnews.com/2021/business/trade/us-footwear-imp..., to furniture https://www.furnituretoday.com/opinion/sourcing-strategies/b... to electronics https://www.wsj.com/articles/samsungs-shift-away-from-china-..., there's a steady pace of companies (big and small) moving out of china

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