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How Amazon Crushes Unions

nytimes.com

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Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#121

Post by deadmetheny »

cratermoon wrote: post #39
glasss wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know a few small business owners that have said if their staff unionized they would just close the business. These aren't bad bosses or people who don't know how to run a business. They just know if their staff unionized and the rest of their industry didn't, they wouldn't be able to compete on price or keep the necessary number of staff. I think it's easier to pick on Amazon or bezos than it is to deal with the po…

> people who don't know how to run a business I submit that if business can't exist without a government subsidy that allows them to pay their employees less than a living wage, then the people running the business do not , in fact, know how to run it.

Do you run a business? I do. Industry-wide races to the bottom that have existed for decades before I was even born have put margins so razor-thin that paying more than slightly higher than the usual industry thresholds is untenable for smaller businesses. You raise your price too much to compensate, and your business dries up. Regulations designed to curtail abuses by large corporations can be devastating for small businesses.

I don't like this fact, and this obviously isn't going to be true for every industry, but these twee 'truisms' don't accurately represent reality.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#122

Post by jtdev »

nafizh wrote: post #24
peer2pay wrote: post #6

I hate Amazon and stories like this make me hate it even more. I stopped ordering anything from them and, if anything, this has actually improved my consumer experience. Most stuff you can buy on Amazon these days is the same garbage that is sold on Wish but you pay ~25-50% more for it to come within a couple of days. Not shopping at either has definitely raised the average life span and quality of goods in my househ…

Can you elaborate where do you buy things online from? I want to move away from Amazon, but it's also exhausting to sort through multiple websites for a product, their shipping fees, and make decisions.

coctco.com has actually been a good alternative for me. Less selection, sure, but I can usually find everything I actually need. Plus, they seem to treat employees well and aren’t trying to monetize my face/sleep schedule/words/browsing activity/etc.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#123

Post by wcfields »

elisbce wrote: post #113

Like the unions didn't already destroy America's auto industry. Now they want to do the same to the tech industry. Supervisors can't talk directly with union workers, they have to go through unions first. Who on earth think this is a good idea? It kills productivity and I'm not even talking about the foreseeable protests down the road. Unions don't work in tech business where you need to break rules and move fast. It…

And trade policy and inferior products didn't play a role, it's all labors fault?

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#124

Post by brundolf »

nafizh wrote: post #24
peer2pay wrote: post #6

I hate Amazon and stories like this make me hate it even more. I stopped ordering anything from them and, if anything, this has actually improved my consumer experience. Most stuff you can buy on Amazon these days is the same garbage that is sold on Wish but you pay ~25-50% more for it to come within a couple of days. Not shopping at either has definitely raised the average life span and quality of goods in my househ…

Can you elaborate where do you buy things online from? I want to move away from Amazon, but it's also exhausting to sort through multiple websites for a product, their shipping fees, and make decisions.

This isn't intended to sound braggy: I honestly just don't buy that many non-consumable items? Most years I buy more items as gifts during the holidays than I do for myself the entire rest of the year. This isn't some kind of extreme-frugality thing: I simply can't think of additional things I would want to buy. And most of the purchases I do make are things I put thought into, where I don't mind shopping around a bit or paying a little extra for shipping.

I just really don't understand why people have a hard time giving up Amazon retail, at least when it comes to the majority of HN who can absolutely afford to pay an extra $10 for shipping a few times a year.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#125

Post by Aunche »

AlexandrB wrote: post #108
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But then what is its purpose? Management has no reason to oppose changes that cost them nothing with or without a union. In an industry with thin margins, anything that does cost them money puts them out of business. Meanwhile a union that can't achieve meaningful concessions is collecting dues for no benefit, requiring the company to pay more to retain talent and thereby putting them out of business just by existing…

This is a very simplified way of thinking about it. Costco manages to be profitable while paying more than the average to retail workers in an industry with thin margins. Whole Foods managed this too until it was acquired. It's funny how the US is often presented hyper innovative, and economically dynamic, while at the same time it is claimed that basic issues like universal health care and workers rights - problems…

Costco operates in the same market conditions Walmart. It's just that their revenue to employee over twice as high, so they can sustainably pay a small number of high-quality workers more rather than a large number of lower-quality workers.

Pro-labor operates under the false assumption that employing a small number of well-paid workers is better for society than employing a large number of lower paid workers. Let's say Walmart could afford to pay a "living wage" by replacing their shelves with pallets, laying off most of their shelvers, and redistributing their wages to the other employees. Would that really be any better?

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#126

Post by mminer237 »

i_haz_rabies wrote: post #75
klaudius wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does someone get into that position? Are public schools so bad that people come out with no marketable unique skills that would give them natural job security?

Unique skills are rare by definition.

Each individual skill may be rare, but given how many thousands of different skills there are, the trait of having some rare skill should be common.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#127

Post by sand_castles »

gavin_gee wrote: post #119

For any business running at scale, this is a math problem. if the cost of human labor rises, more investment will be made to remove humans from the process and replace them with technology. Amazon was one of the great employers through Coronavirus. Perhaps people should think one step ahead.

why not replace landlords instead of workers ?

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#129

Post by tidepod12 »

tablespoon wrote: post #111
tidepod12 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see the commingling thing brought up in every thread like this, but I've never personally, nor has anyone I know IRL, received anything from Amazon that are even suspect of being counterfeit. If they are counterfeit, then they are such high quality counterfeits that I'm not sure I even care. It's obviously a problem to some extent, but I can't help but think news articles like that blow it way out of proportion. As…

> I see the commingling thing brought up in every thread like this, but I've never personally, nor has anyone I know IRL, received anything from Amazon that are even suspect of being counterfeit. If they are counterfeit, then they are such high quality counterfeits that I'm not sure I even care. I wouldn't be so sure, since it's not always easy to spot a counterfeit. Take a charger for instance. A counterfeiter can g…

Like I said, if any of the chargers or cords I have received from Amazon are counterfeit, they're good enough counterfeits that I don't care. My iPhone, iPad, and MBP all charge just fine, still have perfectly fine working batteries, have never had any issues with the electronics, and nothing has caught on fire after years of use. The headphones I've bought from Amazon sound great and have given me no issues. The lightbulbs I bought from Amazon light up my room just fine and last a long time. The SSD I bought is blazing fast and has plenty of space (confirmed by multiple diagnostic checks). The clothes I have bought are comfortable and fit well... And if any of these things weren't true, I am confident it would take me extremely minimal effort to return the item to Amazon and buy a replacement.

Obviously counterfeiting is a problem and in an ideal world there would be no counterfeiting at all, but I remain unconvinced that it's something I have to worry about materially affecting my experience as a customer buying stuff from Amazon.

Re: How Amazon Crushes Unions

#130

Post by antihero »

Chris2048 wrote: post #42
spaetzleesser wrote: post #9

Stuff like this always comes to mind when the media celebrates the richest people in the world. This often comes at the expense of low level employees who do dangerous and underpaid work so a few guys can become very rich. And the worse they treat these employees the more the rich guys get celebrated. That’s why the slogan “run the government like a business” doesn’t work. It would mean to ignore the weakest in socie…

> who do dangerous and underpaid work so a few guys can become very rich If it's underpaid, why do it? If you do it, what makes it "under" paid? By taking the job, you confirm the wage is right.

Because you are desperate and need to pay rent and eat. This is how exploitation worked. If everyone was economically free enough, Amazon managers would be laughed all the way to the door.
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