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Justice at Spotify

unionofmusicians.org

101–110 of 405 posts

Re: Justice at Spotify

#101
It's curious how the advent of streaming has seemingly resulted in boom times for television and film producers, yet apparently not so for musicians.

Yet we pay roughly the same per month for a Spotify subscription as we do for Netflix or Amazon Prime.

Is this just because when it comes to music, the revenue is spread much more thinly, amongst more artists?

Re: Justice at Spotify

#102
I was just listening to a podcast and the CEO was talking about how he wants 1 million artists to be able to live off Spotify[1]. I always find it interesting how far the company implementation of the vision diverges from what the founder says the vision is. This was also something that I saw with Uber. A question i have is what leads to this disconnect?

[1] - https://castro.fm/episode/I2SAkl#47:19

Re: Justice at Spotify

#103
post #27

So I wanted to try put this into perspective since "a penny per stream" is intentionally meant to sound insignificant. This seems like it would roughly double Spotify's costs: https://www.republicworld.com/technology-news/apps/how-much-... And Spotify is already paying out 75% of it's revenue to royalty holders: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/spotify-pr... So unless you believe that Spotify is bad…

It makes me sad to time and time again learn that the low prices of services I love are unsustainable and instead subsidized by treating someone unfairly downstream. I wish I could be told what the ethical price for something is and I might actually pay it. And if that price is too high, then maybe that service shouldn't exist in the first place.

I think it is sustainable if we can cut out the middle man, the royalties go mainly to labels and less so to artists. E.g. if an artist doesnt use a label on Spotify im sure his revenue will be higher and the current price would be sustainable. I think the royalties that go to labels are unsustainable

Re: Justice at Spotify

#105
post #27

So I wanted to try put this into perspective since "a penny per stream" is intentionally meant to sound insignificant. This seems like it would roughly double Spotify's costs: https://www.republicworld.com/technology-news/apps/how-much-... And Spotify is already paying out 75% of it's revenue to royalty holders: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/spotify-pr... So unless you believe that Spotify is bad…

While I agree more money should be sent towards small artists and I really hate to see myself defending a giant tech company, the demands of "x per stream" always makes me a bit confused.

Since spotify already pay out the vast majority of their revenue, there is not really much more room for increase there, at best 5-10% which likely wouldn't settle the case.

Reasonable suggestions would be that either: 1. labels should get less, 2. top artists should get less or 3. consumers should pay more.

Or am I missing something?

Re: Justice at Spotify

#106
post #91
post #10

The ask is 1p/stream. I'm not sure that that's actually sustainable without a massive rise in spotify prices, given the proportion of free users and even paid users that listen to more than 1000 tracks a month. If spotify raises prices, consumers go back to piracy. I'm not sure this will have the effect they want. Let's imagine a radio station. Something medium sized, about a million listeners. They play a track. Are…

Taking a look at their most recent financial statement we can do some quick calculations. (All figures in million euros) Revenue Cost of Revenue Profit Premium : 7135 5126 2009 Free (ads): 745 739 6 Overall : 7880 5865 2015 Now currently the claim is that they are paying out $0.0038 per stream and we want to raise that to $0.01 which would be a 2.63 multiple. For spotify free that would mean that they just have to in…

This is good analysis. Small quibble with the last part - we don't know how much the price charged to consumers needs to increase to be able to afford $0.01 a stream. Any increase in price will see a drop in subscribers, dropping revenue. An increase in price could reduce revenue, making it harder to afford the increased payout.

Re: Justice at Spotify

#107
post #7

#abolishcopyright. Musicians if you’re listening, find a different way to earn a living than depending upon the enslavement of ideas (and by extension, individuals). Copyright is abhorrent, and needs to go. There are better ways.

We've had two decades to envision alternative funding models for music production, and all of them are substantially worse for the musician than "assign a creator's monopoly to the musician and civil liabilities for those who fail to negotiate proper licenses to it". Free markets are designed to allocate scarce goods; with the corollary any person whose work is not scarce does not get to eat. Ergo, if you want certain kinds of nonscarce goods to be made, you need to make them artificially scarce for some limited period.

This is particular to creative works. Free Software gets around this with lots of subsidies, commodified complements, corporate investment, and occasional labors of love. The fact that software is highly collaborative and that licenses like the GPL exist helps. A handful of collaborating developers can produce a spare-time project that is actually useful to other people who will sponsor development of further improvements to the project. Music does not work that way.

Re: Justice at Spotify

#108
post #27

So I wanted to try put this into perspective since "a penny per stream" is intentionally meant to sound insignificant. This seems like it would roughly double Spotify's costs: https://www.republicworld.com/technology-news/apps/how-much-... And Spotify is already paying out 75% of it's revenue to royalty holders: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/spotify-pr... So unless you believe that Spotify is bad…

> And Spotify is already paying out 75% of it's revenue to royalty holders Realize that the royalty holders are not the musicians, but typically the major labels. The musicians get virtually nothing.

The fact that they're showing up at Spotify's offices then shows even more why they're not making money. They seemingly don't understand the business they're in... at all.

They sign shitty contracts that leave them with "virtually nothing" and then complain to someone who is not responsible for them having "virtually nothing".

Re: Justice at Spotify

#109
post #27

So I wanted to try put this into perspective since "a penny per stream" is intentionally meant to sound insignificant. This seems like it would roughly double Spotify's costs: https://www.republicworld.com/technology-news/apps/how-much-... And Spotify is already paying out 75% of it's revenue to royalty holders: https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/spotify-pr... So unless you believe that Spotify is bad…

It makes me sad to time and time again learn that the low prices of services I love are unsustainable and instead subsidized by treating someone unfairly downstream. I wish I could be told what the ethical price for something is and I might actually pay it. And if that price is too high, then maybe that service shouldn't exist in the first place.

Wait - how are you responsible for the fact that the artists sign away their rights to shitty big labels that take the majority of the money that work generates? How are you responsible for dumb decisions musicians make?

Re: Justice at Spotify

#110
A lot of the money in the industry is made by private music royalty funds that buy the rights to music and earn proceeds on their usage. Its a good investment (especially during covid) not available to retail investors.

There is financial innovation that could happen to improve the outcomes for artists.

Many asset classes previously unavailable to the public (private reits, real estate syndications, art investing, wine investing) have been brought downmarket with crowdfunding.

There is green space for a music royalty fund that optimizes for artist benefit over profits and is available to the public.

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