Live data from Hacker News

Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

news.harvard.edu

361–370 of 370 posts

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an order, if not two more who do not benefit, and it is unnecessary. I agree with you. However, I will also no longer be quiet about it. My own costs and risks have been insane. Future impacted in the negative multiple times now. Would not have been most other parts of the world. Frankly, the cost and risk exposure will hit a point where people move in mass, or it won't and we trundle along for a decade or t…

I am a dual US|EU (Croatian) citizen, who naturalized (by descent, via my 4 Croatian great-grandparents, even though I only needed 1) as Croatian over the US healthcare system. Because I am an European Union citizen, I can live/work/retire in the EU and EFTA countries (minus Lichtenstein--has an immigration quota), due to Freedom of Movement rights. I have 2 rare immune-mediated neurological diseases affecting my per…

I am off to do some reading.

Hvala

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#362
post #250

> the immune system has an array of other defenses... including antibodies that attack other parts of the virus, and, importantly, T-cells that attack the infected cells the virus hijacks in order to replicate. “What we’re seeing is that these variants don’t seem to affect T-cell immunity all that much and they [the T-cells] seem to be as effective in recognizing these variants as they do the original virus” People w…

I have done my PhD on T cell activation. The persistent focus of the media and even some of the science community on Antibody induced immunity was completely beyond me. T cells were largely simply ignored even though they play such a crucial role in the body’s immune response. Antibodies seem to be a concept much easier to grasp. Maybe we should call T cells "Police Cells or "Anti-Cells" instead. You know, some marke…

I like the sound of “anticell” which also suggests a function complementary to “antibody”.

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an order, if not two more who do not benefit, and it is unnecessary. I agree with you. However, I will also no longer be quiet about it. My own costs and risks have been insane. Future impacted in the negative multiple times now. Would not have been most other parts of the world. Frankly, the cost and risk exposure will hit a point where people move in mass, or it won't and we trundle along for a decade or t…

M4A is socialism and is just too easy a target in the U.S. At some point there will beer a republicans president, and due to the structural advantages it’s likely he will have full control over all branches. Not sure that a real democracy can survive that.

Well there's a ton of Americans, and those numbers are growing, of people who may not survive this one.

It's a real mess.

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#364
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have done my PhD on T cell activation. The persistent focus of the media and even some of the science community on Antibody induced immunity was completely beyond me. T cells were largely simply ignored even though they play such a crucial role in the body’s immune response. Antibodies seem to be a concept much easier to grasp. Maybe we should call T cells "Police Cells or "Anti-Cells" instead. You know, some marke…

I like the sound of “anticell” which also suggests a function complementary to “antibody”.

It's sounds like a capeshit villain

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The germ theory of disease is also well established. For SARS-CoV-2, while there are still some uncertainties about precisely how important different modes of transmission are, it's clear that it's a respiratory disease. Quarantine works to stop transmission. Lockdowns like the one in Wuhan or those in Australia work, because they stop infected people from coming into close proximity with susceptible people. This muc…

You're really getting your level of abstractions wrong. We understand cellular theory but we don't understand cancer. We understand how computers and math work but we haven't figured out P vs NP. Just because you understand some higher level of abstraction doesn't mean you understand lower levels. Every 'germ' is radically different. Understanding the germ theory of disease doesn't mean anything other than we underst…

The fact that quarantine works is a very direct consequence of the germ theory of disease.

You don't have to understand every detail about the virus to know that keeping infected people away from uninfected people halts its spread.

Quarantine measures have been incredibly effective in countries that have implemented them seriously. China, Australia, New Zealand, Vietnam and other countries have essentially eliminated the virus within their borders. Quarantine is low-tech but effective.

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a dual US|EU (Croatian) citizen, who naturalized (by descent, via my 4 Croatian great-grandparents, even though I only needed 1) as Croatian over the US healthcare system. Because I am an European Union citizen, I can live/work/retire in the EU and EFTA countries (minus Lichtenstein--has an immigration quota), due to Freedom of Movement rights. I have 2 rare immune-mediated neurological diseases affecting my per…

I am off to do some reading. Hvala

Vrlo ste dobrodošli! :-)

You are very welcome! :-)

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#367
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>US will be one of the first countries back to normalcy I live in Australia. The country has been to normal for a long time now, and my state specifically had a lockdown at the start of the pandemic, and since August 2020, we have not had a major lock down (except for one week in Jan 2021 due to a outbreak scare) and have been living in normalcy since then. Just saying because it seems like people erasing and forgett…

Restrictions remain on large gatherings in Australia, with capacity limits. Most of Australia has regulations regarding social distancing. Australian cities are locked-down when a single case is detected. You mentioned the last lock-down in your city was as recent as January. There are currently ~40,000 Australian citizens registered with the government who are trying to get back to Australia, receiving little to no…

And, the ironic thing is, in much of the US life is actually back to a very near normality. People get sick. People are dying. Restaurants/bars in some states are fully open, others are closed, others are at 50%, it just depends. Large events aren't really happening, though for differing reasons (meaning, I don't think right now its because people wouldn't attend; in some locations its because of regulation, in others its more likely just public image of the event-holder).

We went out to a bar in a state capital on Sunday, just to sit outside and get some food and drinks. I went inside to use the restroom, and you literally would not think there's a pandemic. Fifty to sixty people, probably 120% capacity (our city is at 50% capacity on bars; they don't care). No one wearing masks. Someone had their year old baby with them (also, definitely not allowed even outside covid). This wasn't a bar in the middle of nowhere, it was in the middle of a city of millions of people.

Normalcy means different things to different people and in different places. When I say the US will be first back to normalcy, it isn't because we'll be the first country with no cases, or everyone vaccinated (though, our vaccination numbers are insane); its because the people and the government just care less. For many people, nothing has changed; the world has changed a bit around them, but for better or worse (read: for worse) life already is "normal". And, for even far, far more people, like me, the only part of life that isn't "normal" yet is that I throw on a mask when I go in the store or to work. There's plenty of places around the world where that WAS their normal even before covid.

The majority of the US is not NYC/LA/Seattle/SF. It dominates the externally facing image, but its a far more nuanced and complex situation than what is happening in the major cities.

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a dual US|EU (Croatian) citizen, who naturalized (by descent, via my 4 Croatian great-grandparents, even though I only needed 1) as Croatian over the US healthcare system. Because I am an European Union citizen, I can live/work/retire in the EU and EFTA countries (minus Lichtenstein--has an immigration quota), due to Freedom of Movement rights. I have 2 rare immune-mediated neurological diseases affecting my per…

I am off to do some reading. Hvala

[deleted]

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're really getting your level of abstractions wrong. We understand cellular theory but we don't understand cancer. We understand how computers and math work but we haven't figured out P vs NP. Just because you understand some higher level of abstraction doesn't mean you understand lower levels. Every 'germ' is radically different. Understanding the germ theory of disease doesn't mean anything other than we underst…

The fact that quarantine works is a very direct consequence of the germ theory of disease. You don't have to understand every detail about the virus to know that keeping infected people away from uninfected people halts its spread. Quarantine measures have been incredibly effective in countries that have implemented them seriously. China, Australia, New Zealand, Vietnam and other countries have essentially eliminated…

Part of the problem is that quarantine means different things to different people and places. North American and European quarantine seems to have been almost entirely ineffective. Too loose to help and too invasive to not hurt.

It's hard to prove anything, especially because my government's policy is specifically not to tell us where people are infected, city, store, or class of activity, nor infections by capita, etc.

Here they ban playing tennis on outdoor tennis courts (but not other exercise usage of the court, such as weight lifting and dancercize - both of which I've seen there during Covid) while allowing people to sit near each other at the bar and drink. There's a chance that tennis balls are that much more infectious, but it seems likely that political issues got in the way of proper medical advice...

Also, leaving supermarkets open as opposed to totally roadside pickup probably wasted most of the effect of closing everything else. And failing to properly compensate small businesses led to many breaking the rules and going back early just to be able to eat.

So I think people in some places do have a good excuse to be mad about the manipulation. If my government locks me down I want to know that they really think it'll fix something and when I look at other governments versus my own, I don't get that feeling.

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#370
post #278

Famous last words. I wish things were that simple. Evolution is a bitch - it made us, but it can also wipe us out.

Viruses evolve but so do the vaccines. I think we have about 200 more in development. I'm kind of optimistic on that front - as tech improves we'll outpace nature.

Yeah, but viruses evolve faster and branch out. Again, you make all your conclusions based on our experience with DNA viruses - this is an RNA viruses, things are different. Imagine the flu as we know it only more contagious and more lethal. How can we be optimistic when even the flu kids enough and damages the economy already and vaccines have spotty success against it.
Post reply on HN