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Linux is Not Windows

linux.oneandoneis2.org

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

#41

Post by microtonal »

jrockway wrote: post #39
huge_dong_420 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strangely, my grandmother isn't terribly concerned by these issues. Why are you listing open sourceness and man pages as a reason that Joe Average User should use Linux? Perhaps you need to reacquaint yourself with Joe.

Here's why the average Joe should use Linux instead of Windows: it's $200 cheaper. If all you are going to do is connect to Wifi and run Chrome... guess what, you don't need a Windows license. After that, it's all details. Windows has spyware. Linux has apt-get. But users don't care.

Here's why the average Joe should use Linux instead of Windows: it's $200 cheaper.

Except that it's not true. We had Windows Vista Home Premium (IIRC) + Works refunded once from Dell, because Ubuntu was used. The refund was 80 Euro.

In fact, they say it inflates the price of PCs barely, because the relatively small OEM Windows fee is compensated by installing tons of adware, browser bars, etc. from 3rd party vendors.

Re: Linux is Not Windows

#42

Post by akdubya »

jrockway wrote: post #38
gamble wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Desktop Linux doesn't have a learning curve; it has a learning cliff. Linux cribs so much from other operating systems that it's reasonably familiar and easy to use when you first sit down, but the problems start when you need to go beyond using it as a dumb terminal: perhaps you need to set up a printer, or there's an issue with networking or power management. Now you're over the cliff. It can be a nightmare for a e…

It can be a nightmare for a engineer like myself to fix problems, even though I've been using Linux since the mid-90s. An unsophisticated user would be finished. I hear this a lot, but nobody ever actually describes the problem they have. You mentioned priting. On my minimal Debian box, you point your web browser at http://localhost:631 and click shit and then the printer works. (If you want to improve print quality…

"On my minimal Debian box, you point your web browser at http://localhost:631 and click shit and then the printer works."

I just learned something.

Re: Linux is Not Windows

#43

Post by xentronium »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #10

The problem that I continue to see is, people have this image of Linux and the "Linux Desktop". That image, that tons of "hacker" types that love OS X seem to have, hasn't changed in years and is extremely out of date. I hear people talk about problems or applications that haven't been standard linux fair for years now, but they haven't tried it and by-golly they're unbelievably attached to those memories they have o…

> My phone works as a modem out of the box in Ubuntu. I can do internet connection sharing to my Xbox in less than 5 clicks (it required registry editing and manual editting of UNIX files in use in OS X), and I've yet to get my phone working as a modem in OS X, period.

And you still can't watch video without tearing on multiple displays setup :(

(You have to disable one of the displays in driver settings)

You can't have photoshop or any decent image editing software on linux (gimp is, well, a cripple).

Arguably, font rendering is still awful, and so are default fonts in all the distros.

You still have to watch out for what you upgrade and in which order. E.g. if you update X with non-repository video drivers (e.g. binary AMD drivers), your system might not even load after reboot.

Speaking of AMD drivers, they are plain horrible.

Arguably, GNOME / KDE / XFCE are all worse than Windows Explorer or OS X default window manager.

Whenever it comes to something being easy to use or well-designed visually, linux desktop experience is so much inferior compared to windows and os x.

Re: Linux is Not Windows

#44

Post by chrisjsmith »

Goladus wrote: post #3

I'd be interested to see a more concise and less sarcastic modern summary of how Linux is Not Windows. This reads more like a rant at how windows people Just Don't Get It more than a genuine attempt to be helpful. edit: Here's an example of a more helpful style, comparing linux and BSD, and he even self-deprecatingly files it under rants: http://www.over-yonder.net/~fullermd/rants/bsd4linux/01

Excellent - thanks for posting that.

I ironically moved from FreeBSD to Debian about 10 years ago. Perhaps it's time for another look.

Re: Linux is Not Windows

#45

Post by bonch »

drivebyacct2 wrote: post #10

The problem that I continue to see is, people have this image of Linux and the "Linux Desktop". That image, that tons of "hacker" types that love OS X seem to have, hasn't changed in years and is extremely out of date. I hear people talk about problems or applications that haven't been standard linux fair for years now, but they haven't tried it and by-golly they're unbelievably attached to those memories they have o…

Sorry, but Linux drivers are often poor-quality, and there are too many package managers and sound APIs and desktop environments. If you think connection sharing to an Xbox or using your phone as a modem are things the mainstream public even thinks about, you don't have an accurate real-world perspective. They just want to watch YouTube without the sound chopping up.

Re: Linux is Not Windows

#46

Post by bonch »

cookiecaper wrote: post #26
fleitz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting your phone to work as a modem is not a problem that most people have. Linux solves a whole host of problems that developers have very well, and does a very poor job of solving the problems that most people have. If you tally up a list of possible problems someone might encounter in their entire computing use Linux will definitely solve far more intuitively than Windows, however, when tally up a list of possib…

>Getting your phone to work as a modem is not a problem that most people have. I'm just going to address this point right here. Almost all normal people I know would really appreciate being able to get internet in any variety of locales where they'd otherwise have to wrangle with stupid WiFi login screens and money portals or where even crappy commercial WiFi is unavailable (park?). The thing is that most people just…

Tethering is easy on Windows.

Re: Linux is Not Windows

#47

Post by bonch »

djd wrote: post #14
j_baker wrote: post #2

You know, to a certain extent, unfriendliness is what I like about Linux. I like "friendly" systems for browsing the web, email, and watching video. But for hacking, Linux simply can't be beat. I really don't see why Linux needs to be an OS for Joe Internet User. What's wrong with Linux being a server/development OS?

The reason Linux seems to be un friendly is because windows takes care you as a baby,most of the time you are not in control and there is nothing much to worry. So if kids where exposed to Linux first this problem would not arise IMHO

You might also say that Windows treats you as if you have a life and don't spend your free time setting up sound cards and installing multiple desktop environments. We also no longer hand-crank automobiles to start them.

Re: Linux is Not Windows

#48

Post by TeMPOraL »

jrockway wrote: post #38
gamble wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Desktop Linux doesn't have a learning curve; it has a learning cliff. Linux cribs so much from other operating systems that it's reasonably familiar and easy to use when you first sit down, but the problems start when you need to go beyond using it as a dumb terminal: perhaps you need to set up a printer, or there's an issue with networking or power management. Now you're over the cliff. It can be a nightmare for a e…

It can be a nightmare for a engineer like myself to fix problems, even though I've been using Linux since the mid-90s. An unsophisticated user would be finished. I hear this a lot, but nobody ever actually describes the problem they have. You mentioned priting. On my minimal Debian box, you point your web browser at http://localhost:631 and click shit and then the printer works. (If you want to improve print quality…

> Nope, shitty hardware never works. Linux just hides that from you less than Windows.

And that's the thing that Windows actually gets right. A typical user doesn't know nor care about OS-hardware compatibility. He/she buys a printer and wants it to work. It is up to OS to make this happen.

Re: Linux is Not Windows

#49

Post by num1 »

Mithrandir wrote: post #27
acabal wrote: post #21

I'm guessing the X in title of this post is standing for "desktop", since that's what the other post on the front page today was referring to. But I think the problems in this article have nothing to do with the mainstream indifference towards Linux on the desktop. (And before I start, I should say I love Linux and have used it as my primary machine for years--and am still using it now.) I think the problems are: 1.…

Most people (meaning the 'general population', 'mainstream users', and 'average Tom, Dick, or Harry') who aren't GNU/Linux users have either: a) Never heard of G/L b) Don't know how to install it; don't care; 'Windows/Mac is good enough for me' c) Have had compatibility problems with it when they tried Of course, the idea of general population depends on who you interact with the most, but let's assume general means…

I'd really like to know what happened to Ubuntu being supported by Dell a while ago. http://www.dell.com/ubuntu only lists one machine that you can buy with Ubuntu pre-installed.

If this had kept up, and more suppliers had joined the bandwagon, it would have been exactly the major support you are talking about. Why did things move backwards?

Re: Linux is Not Windows

#50

Post by coffeeaddicted »

Just some nitpicking: His d5w example ignores the fact that you have to count the words first. Without visual clue - and once you are finished counting you still have to type it in. While the inferior Ctrl-Shift-Right doesn't need any mental work, you just do the counting and selecting in one.
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