Thanks for sharing. I didn't know about the magazine, and as a lover of all things aquatic, I was missing something like this. It reminds me a lot of the old Italian magazine "Aqua".
Tuna’s Last Stand
51–60 of 67 posts
Re: Tuna’s Last Stand
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I'm sorry, but I refuse to feel guilty Then you're not sorry. > When I go to the store and buy some tuna I expect that it was responsibly fished. If it wasn't then it's the fault of our government and regulation, regular customer shouldn't be worried about that. How do you think regulations come to be? If a consumer wants a product, a company finds a way to provide it. The company will poison the land, sea and sky…
>>Ultimately, you, and everyone like you, are the reason we can't have nice things. Because I expect to live in a country with a strong regulatory framework where if I buy something in a store I don't have to worry whether it was produced in an ethical way? You're right, I'm the problem. Thanks mate.
You've already admitted you won't lift a finger to actually help the situation. Why would you expect your government to do anything if they're made up of people like you? Do you believe all those government workers exist on some other plane of moral relativism? Or do you think that laws and regulations magically come into being, like the zeitgeist just wills regulations into place?
The government does not sit around reading your mind and then make regulations to match it. Even if it could, it wouldn't. The government only creates a regulation when either a corporation or a very vocal coalition of people demand it. And those two parties are working against each other anyway, making it even less likely.
I really don't know how to explain it in simple enough terms. If you don't care, then neither does the society, and thus the government. Ergo, people like you are the reason the regulations don't exist and aren't enforced when they do.
Re: Tuna’s Last Stand
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is about the "tragedy of the commons", not any specific feature of industrial fishing. Indeed, where industrial fishing has assigned property rights, like with fish farming, there are no issues with systemic collapse.
We already have territorial waters which are broadly ignored by fishing fleets from certain countries. Property laws on land work because you can enforce them. The ocean is too big.. and wet..
Satellites, aircraft, and navies exist, and can detect violations and force the perpetrators away.
Doing so pervasively costs a lot of money, though; no country seems to be as rich as to engage in such enforcement with enough strictness.
Re: Tuna’s Last Stand
#54> “All industrial fisheries, with very few exceptions, are ultimately drained of life after a certain time,” says Daniel Pauly, a University of British Columbia fisheries biologist. “They increase and push, push, until they collapse. Why should skipjack tuna be any different?” There you have it.
I mostly eat salmon, but I'd love to switch to smaller fish. Does anyone know a good way to get herring or sardines other than canned? Apart from being more expensive due to preparation, even bpa free can liners worry me a bit. Frozen would be ideal.
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Re: Tuna’s Last Stand
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
Tuna is hunted wildlife, an international commons. It's clearly evident that no regulation will happen anytime soon that will actually make a difference. If you buy it, you are part of the problem, either ignorantly or knowingly. Occasionally I find myself in some gastronomy setting were nothing in the menu appeals to me other than the dishes containing tuna and then I eat it, and enjoy it a lot. It happens less than…
I'm sorry, but tuna being farmed in international waters shouldn't be an obstacle. In all EU countries and UK there are quotas of what a fishing vessel can bring into port. So it doesn't matter where the fish was actually caught, if the country ran out of annual quota for tuna for instance, then no fishing vessel can bring any tuna to any port. It's not an insurmountable problem.
Agreeing on sustainable quotas apparently is.
Whaling wasn't stopped (mostly stopped) thanks to people insisting on buying whale products until regulation happens.
Re: Tuna’s Last Stand
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
The vast majority of salmon is farmed, so sustainable in the sense that it isn't going to diminish wild stocks. There are arguments against open-pen aquaculture too of course, but it's all relative. And a lot of money is being spent on solving those issues, such as deep sea aquaculture (where the effluent isn't a big problem, compared to static coastal pens), closed-containment (where all waste can be collected and u…
Farmed fish isn't necessarily sustainable. It depends on the species. For some species, e.g., eel, they are farm raised but they are wild caught when young. For eel, we have not been able to get them to lay eggs that could be hatched and they take 10-25 years to reach sexual maturity [0]. Eels are not doing very well at all. Moreover, farmed fish are often fed wild fish, so that could have some strong negative impact…
I'm (very) familiar with salmon aquaculture, but know very little about other species.
As far as salmon go, there has been a huge push to reduce wild catch content in feed, replacing it things like soya. I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but I recall being impressed - if you're interested, you can search for the latest MOWI annual report (think they call it a "sustainability report"), and Norwegian ministries publish a wealth of information.
Re: Tuna’s Last Stand
#57> “All industrial fisheries, with very few exceptions, are ultimately drained of life after a certain time,” says Daniel Pauly, a University of British Columbia fisheries biologist. “They increase and push, push, until they collapse. Why should skipjack tuna be any different?” There you have it.
I mostly eat salmon, but I'd love to switch to smaller fish. Does anyone know a good way to get herring or sardines other than canned? Apart from being more expensive due to preparation, even bpa free can liners worry me a bit. Frozen would be ideal.
It depends on where you live. If you is very far from the sea and main markets, freswhater fishes could be the choice.
Sardines are easy to find in Europe. You can have also bigger pieces canned but preserved in salt. Is a different product that your typical canned sardines and more environmentally responsible. The elder fishes have a choice to reproduce before to being fished and tins are bigger so more efficient to produce. Some people love them, other dislike the extra salty stuff. is an acquired taste.
Re: Tuna’s Last Stand
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
The vast majority of salmon is farmed, so sustainable in the sense that it isn't going to diminish wild stocks. There are arguments against open-pen aquaculture too of course, but it's all relative. And a lot of money is being spent on solving those issues, such as deep sea aquaculture (where the effluent isn't a big problem, compared to static coastal pens), closed-containment (where all waste can be collected and u…
Farmed fish isn't necessarily sustainable. It depends on the species. For some species, e.g., eel, they are farm raised but they are wild caught when young. For eel, we have not been able to get them to lay eggs that could be hatched and they take 10-25 years to reach sexual maturity [0]. Eels are not doing very well at all. Moreover, farmed fish are often fed wild fish, so that could have some strong negative impact…
It depends on the species, but you have some options at least.
Re: Tuna’s Last Stand
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
>>Ultimately, you, and everyone like you, are the reason we can't have nice things. Because I expect to live in a country with a strong regulatory framework where if I buy something in a store I don't have to worry whether it was produced in an ethical way? You're right, I'm the problem. Thanks mate.
You've already admitted you won't lift a finger to actually help the situation. Why would you expect your government to do anything if they're made up of people like you? Do you believe all those government workers exist on some other plane of moral relativism? Or do you think that laws and regulations magically come into being, like the zeitgeist just wills regulations into place? The government does not sit around…
Ok, maybe I came across incorrectly.
Obviously, I do care. I do care on the level of having strong regulation, having institutions and governments which regulate this, so that at the end as a customer when I walk into a store I don't need to Google whether a particular brand is fishing tuna in a particular way or not. I expect that the entire structure that exists for regulating and allowing these products to reach the shelves will prevent products which are made in an insustainable way. Maybe I'm a fool for expecting it to work this. But that was why I replied how I did - that I refuse to feel bad because I expect my government to prevent this in the first place. Just like I said elsewhere - I don't worry whether a phone I'm buying was made with child labour because I believe all governments involved in the production of the device enforce laws against child labour.
That doesn't mean that I don't care. But if I find out that phones made by kids or tuna fished to extinction is on store shelves I'll complain.....to the regulatory bodies. Not decide "well, I guess I'll never eat tuna ever again".
Re: Tuna’s Last Stand
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
Farmed fish isn't necessarily sustainable. It depends on the species. For some species, e.g., eel, they are farm raised but they are wild caught when young. For eel, we have not been able to get them to lay eggs that could be hatched and they take 10-25 years to reach sexual maturity [0]. Eels are not doing very well at all. Moreover, farmed fish are often fed wild fish, so that could have some strong negative impact…
I'm (very) familiar with salmon aquaculture, but know very little about other species. As far as salmon go, there has been a huge push to reduce wild catch content in feed, replacing it things like soya. I don't have the numbers off the top of my head, but I recall being impressed - if you're interested, you can search for the latest MOWI annual report (think they call it a "sustainability report"), and Norwegian min…
The problem is that carnivore fishes are tasty, and vegetarian fishes... not so much. You can't just replace all their food by plant stuff and expect a good growth. 5-10% of soy, maybe, I' don't remember the exact value, but > 50%... No way.
Fishes get ill and growth is stunted. It promotes cannibalism also. Premium fish food for aquaculture is expensive.