Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#71

Post by nullserver » Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 7:41 PM UTC

drenvuk wrote: post #7

Any harrowing experience can cause PTSD. Usually time makes the feeling fade and understanding what specifically caused the stress during trying circumstances and avoiding or controlling those situations prevents them from occurring again. I suggest you slow down and write cause, effect and solution for everything that seems to be circling repeatedly in your mind when your mind wanders. I also suggest taking a hike o…

Fade yes. But it can be Shocking how something fairly minor will happen and instantly your back in the middle of your worst possible nightmare.

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#72

Post by kodah » Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 8:13 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #15

tlb wrote: post #2

I had to shut down a company and lay off a dozen people, losing most of my savings and several years work. Friends have experienced much worse. These might not compare to the worst horrors of war, but they rank among life's agonies with getting divorced, or losing a parent. They can cause something like PTSD. It can take months or years to be ready to try something big again, and some people never bounce back. Most p…

> They can cause something like PTSD. I believe that OP was asking about actual PTSD, which is thing with a specific definition and diagnostic criteria.

PTSD is a continuum and is not something that is clearly defined. The trouble that people get in is when they try to compare or apply hierarchy to trauma; eg: x > y where x, y are traumatic experiences. The whole activity seems rather pointless unless you're somehow trying to figure out what to treat first. That line of thought is fair when dealing with one individual with multiple traumas but when applied to a broader group it incentivizes downplaying and dehumanization. We used to do this a lot in the veteran community but I think folks have gravitated away from it.

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#73

Post by vanusa » Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 9:53 PM UTC

Oh absolutely.

Aside from the stress of long hours, combined with financial risk - in addition to the conniving, backstabbing and sheer incompetence of many people you get to work with, out in startup-land - there's a huge cognitive dissonance factor. Arising from "you're doing this because you love it, because you're on a mission, because we 'chose' you (out of the pile of other hapless victims we could have chosen), etc. Oh and shitty office space, crap insurance and other benefits, etc.

Add it all up, and you get a perfect storm for PTSD.

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#74

Post by tolbish » Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 9:59 PM UTC

rl3 wrote: post #60

sneak wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a specific set of objective diagnostic criteria for PTSD. Nobody is saying that those experiences aren't traumatic or stressful. What we're saying is that Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is a specific thing with a specific definition, distinct from "the set of all people who have experienced trauma as the result of stress". https://www.brainline.org/article/dsm-5-criteria-ptsd

> Nobody is saying that those experiences aren't traumatic ... The person I was replying to was saying exactly that. The fact there's a specific diagnostic criteria wasn't relevant. That said, you may find C-PTSD of interest: https://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/treat/essentials/comple...

I should have said it sounds like it could suck very much to the point of being traumatic, but not the level of trauma experienced by those who suffer from PTSD.

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#75

Post by jonathanleane » Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 3:20 AM UTC

eurasiantiger wrote: post #62

jonathanleane wrote: post #45

Absolutely. I've gone through periods where simply opening my laptop would almost invariably result in what I can only describe as a low-grade panic attack. If that's not PTSD, I don't know what is. I've been taking a break for most of the last 6 months, and am only just starting to get back to 'normal'. I'm not at all convinced that I'll ever fully get back to where I was pre-burnout, but at least I can check my ema…

That sounds like an acute stress reaction brought about by chronic stress. The diagnostic criteria of PTSD include a latency of several months or years from the traumatic event(s) and the first appearance of symptoms. The symptoms of PTSD generally include hypervigilance (checking your six all the time), restlessness, sense of impending doom, rumination (fixation of thoughts on the traumatic events and retributive fa…

I don't want to put words in the OP's mouth, but my interpretation of 'PTSD' in this context was in the vernacular not the clinical sense.

I fully accept that whatever work related trauma I've been through probably pales into insignificance compared to victims of abuse, violence, etc., and don't mean any disrespect.

Having said that, literally every single symptom you listed in your second paragraph resonates with me.

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#76

Post by fairity » Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 4:22 AM UTC

Hello. Yes. My last startup went bankrupt. After raising $xx million. Laid off hundreds of employees including many college friends.

Experienced symptoms of depression for 1-3 years.

Realized that the primary root cause of my depression was an extrinsic, non-resilient value system.

Am doing better now with a more intrinsic value system but certainly still not 100%. I’ve learned that changing value systems is easy in theory but hard in practice.

Would be more than happy to discuss more here or offline. Either way, best of luck!

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#77

Post by zxspectrum1982 » Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 9:24 AM UTC

It is. I started up and failed, then got a job and everything was fine. But after 9 months, I was down for 6 month. I think I was still in startup-sprint mode for the first months at the new job but PTSD finally hit me.

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#78

Post by hntrader » Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 1:32 PM UTC

vanusa wrote: post #73

Oh absolutely. Aside from the stress of long hours, combined with financial risk - in addition to the conniving, backstabbing and sheer incompetence of many people you get to work with, out in startup-land - there's a huge cognitive dissonance factor. Arising from "you're doing this because you love it, because you're on a mission, because we 'chose' you (out of the pile of other hapless victims we could have chosen)…

> conniving, backstabbing and sheer incompetence of many people you get to work with

This social conflict aspect is probably the most common reason for workplace burnout/PTSD/etc. The work itself is rarely that stressful, it's being in a combative or political environment that takes the biggest toll.

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#79

Post by ____throwaway6 » Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

There are a number of things you can do to help.

* EMDR - have someone adequately trained assist.

* CBT

* Third Wave therapy

* In consultation with a doctor, alter meds, supplements, what you eat

* Proper exercise

* Elimination/addition of certain foods, drinks, nutrients, or meds

Jocko, whom I think has a good handle on PTSD, swears by limiting intake/fasting and not eating crap food. Also: exercise and self-motivation.

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#80

Post by Spooky23 » Sun, Mar 14, 2021, 6:33 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #59

rl3 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a significant difference between going through something that really sucks, and being traumatized. Based on the information presented thus far, OP is going through the former. Yeah losing all your savings working on shit that didn't matter in the end while wasting years of your life isn't traumatizing at all. Glad you cleared that up for them. At what point does it become traumatizing? After a person in th…

There is a specific set of objective diagnostic criteria for PTSD. Nobody is saying that those experiences aren't traumatic or stressful. What we're saying is that Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is a specific thing with a specific definition, distinct from "the set of all people who have experienced trauma as the result of stress". https://www.brainline.org/article/dsm-5-criteria-ptsd

Are you qualified to evaluate this persons anecdote from a diagnostic perspective?

I’m curious, since you’re a pedant about diagnostic criteria, I’m surprised that a qualified individual would make such a determination from a brief HN post.