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Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

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Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#51

Post by Firehawke »

dayre wrote: post #41

1999/2000 Toronto, height of the dot com, new grad in a "senior dev" role with no real experience. Our CTO was a paranoid chronic pot smoker who lectured me regularly on knowing the difference between "sharks" vs. "dolphins", our manager, a sweet Hungarian man who excelled in his prior career managing major infrastructure projects, was pulled out of retirement to lead the team and the experience almost killed him...…

Look, what I'm going to say here is not even close to the same, but it really needs be said.

I have that same kind of visceral reaction to any thoughts of certain employers that I've had "that" kind of relationship with. I don't think it's "startup PTSD" so much as "dysfunctional employment (or other relationship) PTSD"

I can easily mark the exact moment where my ability to deal with the situation I was in went so far gone that my brain's instinctive response was to just flee.

I've seen this with familial relations as well, which clearly pushes it well into "just normal PTSD" if you can accept that ANY form of PTSD is "normal" (which I refuse, for the record...)

I'm just glad you got out before you actually ended up with permanent psychological damage. This shit isn't a joke.

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#52

Post by joshxyz »

hugzandkisses wrote: post #23
sahillavingia wrote: post #18

No.

Says the guy who raised 10s of millions of venture capital, used that to build himself up, pissed the company down the drain, and is now selling a fake story about his great successes. Yeah, startup PTSD doesn't apply to you because you don't care for anyone besides yourself. People like you are just making it worse.

Easy there bud.

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#53

Post by justinjlynn »

itisit wrote: post #49
staticman2 wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laypeople word policing psychological terms on the internet is a weird rabbit hole if you buy the criticism the terms are arbitrary to begin with and don't really refer to reality.

What is reality?

That which is irreplaceable, I'd conjecture.

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#54

Post by tlb »

sneak wrote: post #15
tlb wrote: post #2

I had to shut down a company and lay off a dozen people, losing most of my savings and several years work. Friends have experienced much worse. These might not compare to the worst horrors of war, but they rank among life's agonies with getting divorced, or losing a parent. They can cause something like PTSD. It can take months or years to be ready to try something big again, and some people never bounce back. Most p…

> They can cause something like PTSD. I believe that OP was asking about actual PTSD, which is thing with a specific definition and diagnostic criteria.

Not even the most orthodox clinician claims that PTSD is a binary thing. It's a label for a continuum of experiences, and you can diagnose it if it affects daily life enough to benefit from treatment.

The purpose of labeling disorders, whether it's PTSD, autism, or depression, is to be able to learn from related experiences. It's useful to talk about founders having post-traumatic stress because you can apply lessons learned from larger groups like soldiers and ER surgeons, both of which have large organizations studying their mental health, unlike startup founders.

Labels also cause problems. People reject labels because they feel they are so unique that no other human experience could possibly shed light upon their own. They may be right about some intellectual aspect of themselves, but people's emotional systems are pretty darn similar.

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#55

Post by kubanczyk »

comfrey wrote: post #16

Life is trauma. The more we take on the more punches we take. Let us not let our ambitions be weapons against ourselves. Leadership takes wisdom based on experience and learning. The adrenals are the alarm, and the thyroid is the gas pedal. Trauma can offset both. But yes, life and work is tough unless we have balance and willingness to grow from pain. Keep breathing deep and take ashwagandha. These times are more ro…

> Life is trauma.

Life is not trauma. As my cat says.

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#56

Post by temikus »

I would suggest to seek professional help on this. Almost none of the commenters in this thread are actually qualified to answer.

Speaking from experience of a close friend though - PTSD can come about in different ways and not necessarily from one key event (e.g. it can be a result of prolonged abuse or bullying). Additionally if you have been emotionally or physically abused in childhood the level of tolerance for stress can be severely limited, exasperating the issue.

Good luck! Mental health issues suck :(

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#57

Post by p0d »

I am not a psychiatrist however I grew up in the midst of conflict. It just doesn't sit right considering startup failure in the same context as individuals experiencing those they know being murdered...or the many other horrors people experience.

I do not say this to underplay the difficulty of tech failure. However, within that failure there is probably plenty of privilege. Opportunities that others could only dream.

You are trying to grow and learn from your experiences. Being at peace with yourself can be hard work. I did the leave my job, accelerator programme, back to the workplace journey. I think it's best not to frame your experiences in terms of PTSD. I think this may shape your understanding in a way which is overly negative. There's the old saying you may not see the wood for the trees. In your case I would say come to HN and talk about the trees you have experienced. Rather than try and give the wood a name.

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#58

Post by rl3 »

tolbish wrote: post #35
dave_sullivan wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guy tells an interesting story from his own experience and this dude wants to quibble about specific definitions and diagnostic criteria, this is the pedantry HN is famous for.

Going to have to disagree with you. There is a significant difference between going through something that really sucks, and being traumatized. Based on the information presented thus far, OP is going through the former.

>There is a significant difference between going through something that really sucks, and being traumatized. Based on the information presented thus far, OP is going through the former.

Yeah losing all your savings working on shit that didn't matter in the end while wasting years of your life isn't traumatizing at all. Glad you cleared that up for them.

At what point does it become traumatizing? After a person in that circumstance falls into one hellish layer of depression after another and decides to finally end it?

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#59

Post by sneak »

rl3 wrote: post #58
tolbish wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going to have to disagree with you. There is a significant difference between going through something that really sucks, and being traumatized. Based on the information presented thus far, OP is going through the former.

> There is a significant difference between going through something that really sucks, and being traumatized. Based on the information presented thus far, OP is going through the former. Yeah losing all your savings working on shit that didn't matter in the end while wasting years of your life isn't traumatizing at all. Glad you cleared that up for them. At what point does it become traumatizing? After a person in th…

There is a specific set of objective diagnostic criteria for PTSD.

Nobody is saying that those experiences aren't traumatic or stressful. What we're saying is that Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is a specific thing with a specific definition, distinct from "the set of all people who have experienced trauma as the result of stress".

https://www.brainline.org/article/dsm-5-criteria-ptsd

Re: Ask HN: Is startup PTSD real and possible?

#60

Post by rl3 »

sneak wrote: post #59
rl3 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a significant difference between going through something that really sucks, and being traumatized. Based on the information presented thus far, OP is going through the former. Yeah losing all your savings working on shit that didn't matter in the end while wasting years of your life isn't traumatizing at all. Glad you cleared that up for them. At what point does it become traumatizing? After a person in th…

There is a specific set of objective diagnostic criteria for PTSD. Nobody is saying that those experiences aren't traumatic or stressful. What we're saying is that Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is a specific thing with a specific definition, distinct from "the set of all people who have experienced trauma as the result of stress". https://www.brainline.org/article/dsm-5-criteria-ptsd

>Nobody is saying that those experiences aren't traumatic ...

The person I was replying to was saying exactly that. The fact there's a specific diagnostic criteria wasn't relevant.

That said, you may find C-PTSD of interest:

https://www.ptsd.va.gov/professional/treat/essentials/comple...

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