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Dhcpcd Will Need a New Maintainer

roy.marples.name

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Re: Dhcpcd Will Need a New Maintainer

#171

Post by kortilla »

pjc50 wrote: post #39
KennyFromIT wrote: post #3

Messages like these are so sad to read. The world will never realize how many people are working tirelessly behind the scenes to keep society moving forward. Cheers to all of the silent (and sometimes not so silent) people that continue to give of themselves to make this world a more wonderful place in their own little way. You all are awesome and we literally couldn't go on with our way of life without you.

I call this "Postel decentralisation": everyone thinks there's some kind of system or institution making everything work, but in fact there's just a guy doing it all on his own.

In reality it works nothing like this though. People like to think that all of these companies and downstream projects depend on this maintainer, but realistically they would have no problem switching to a fork or doing it internally.

Using his work as-is from upstream is just the path of least resistance. If nobody picks up dhcpd maintenance companies will have no problem carrying forks and more than likely the open source community will quickly converge around a future implementation.

This isn’t comparable to some sole manufacturer or anything like that. It’s similar instead to someone publishing blueprints for basic things and everyone using them because of time saved because redoing them from scratch is tedious and wouldn’t have much of a point.

Re: Dhcpcd Will Need a New Maintainer

#172

Post by kortilla »

4ec0755f5522 wrote: post #110
sjtindell wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just in my personal opinion, things like a UBI move us towards that world. It wound allow people flexibility.

I wonder if UBI could be marketed politically in this way, e.g. "Finally paying for all the things you've already been using" or "Finally paying for the free labor you've based your life on" etc. type of messaging. I mean, it should be less guilt-y of course (I'm not in marketing) and somehow capture it's _society_ finally paying for the things generated by free/underpaid labor, not individual citizens, and not imply…

That’s terrible messaging for UBI because it’s universal. It’s literally for people who haven’t meaningfully contributed anything to society as much as it is for the struggling underpaid artist.

Framing it as “finally paying for something you’ve been getting for free” is an amazing way to kill it because you’re paying to support drunks, spouse abusers, racists, etc. That will immediately lead to discussions about criteria to receive it and it will no longer be UBI.

Re: Dhcpcd Will Need a New Maintainer

#173

Post by will4274 »

path411 wrote: post #128
4ec0755f5522 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if UBI could be marketed politically in this way, e.g. "Finally paying for all the things you've already been using" or "Finally paying for the free labor you've based your life on" etc. type of messaging. I mean, it should be less guilt-y of course (I'm not in marketing) and somehow capture it's _society_ finally paying for the things generated by free/underpaid labor, not individual citizens, and not imply…

Sadly I think the people who are against UBI now, really don't care about anything like that. If someone is so devoid of empathy that they don't want to provide such a basic financial safety net for people in their own country from living in homelessness/poverty, I don't think they really care about paying people who's work they've used unknowingly.

Come on. The world isn't divided into people who agree with you and psychopaths. That's such a juvenile and unhealthy way of looking at the world. People who oppose UBI generally worry about cost (which they feel they will pay) and the potential for shifting incentives to result in a worse society - they have just much as empathy as you, they are just empathizing with different people (the lower and middle class paying for the UBI instead of the underclass receiving it) or envisioning different outcomes.

Re: Dhcpcd Will Need a New Maintainer

#174

Post by kortilla »

path411 wrote: post #164
trav4225 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure that most opposition to UBI has little to do with lack of empathy, but rather with practical economic reasoning and general beliefs about the role of government in society.

Maybe I'm just too indoctrinated by reddit at this point, but someone would really have to give me a lot of real world evidence counter to not only the examples where UBI and other programs targeted towards the poor have benefited the economy. But even just to counter the pretty basic logic that more productive members of society helps the economy, and more money in the hands of people spending money, not hoarding mo…

The counter evidence is simple, it costs $300 billion a month to provide 300 million adults with $1,000 a month. That’s $3.6 trillion a year.

That’s the entire federal tax revenue consumed by UBI. So you need to double everyone’s income tax to get back to even.

Of course there is evidence giving people free stuff improves their lives. The problem is that’s an insane amount of money that has to come from somewhere.

To put that in context, the top 1% have an aggregate wealth in the US of about 34 trillion. So we could take all of the net worth from doctors, lawyers, business owners, CEOs, FAANG employees, etc and pay for this for about 10 years. Then we’re left with consuming the middle class and then we’ll just be out of wealth period.

There is just no reasonable explanation for how this will be paid for. Even wealthy countries favorable to socialist policies (e.g. Norway) have nothing like UBI.

Let me turn the question to you. What makes you think UBI is sustainable? You have to have some pretty damn good evidence when you’re betting the entire federal government budget on it.

Re: Dhcpcd Will Need a New Maintainer

#175

Post by firedating »

einpoklum wrote: post #51
winfred wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it, we already have that world, with capitalism functioning as a filter. I worked my ass off to reach financial independence, now I'm dedicating the rest of my life towards helping other people. I've proven to be capable of using the system to a degree where I can do whatever I want, which allows me the freedom to help other people full time. It's not a perfect system, but I doubt UBI will be much bette…

> I worked my ass off to reach financial independence This is a false pursuit, and in a sense a vacuous statement. You are never independent of society around you. You are in constant need of others doing that invisible and visible labor - in production and in services - to maintain your way of life. It's only with Capitalism being the way it is that you need to "work your ass off" to not be financially dependent on…

I disagree that pursuing financial independence is a false pursuit.

"Financial independence" != "independence from the society". No one claims to be independent of the society. One just does not have to earn money anymore.

I agree that money are worthless without places to spend them and someone producing stuff to buy. This does not make financial independence less useful though.

Re: Dhcpcd Will Need a New Maintainer

#176

Post by roboyoshi »

Damn, Roy - I wish you all the best. I remember writing roy an email about the website not working when I setup his openresolv for my wireguard tunnel. He kindly responded and told me what was broken and why. It's just a very small touch into his life I made, but with it this whole thing hits me so much harder.

Re: Dhcpcd Will Need a New Maintainer

#177

Post by the-smug-one »

kortilla wrote: post #174
path411 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm just too indoctrinated by reddit at this point, but someone would really have to give me a lot of real world evidence counter to not only the examples where UBI and other programs targeted towards the poor have benefited the economy. But even just to counter the pretty basic logic that more productive members of society helps the economy, and more money in the hands of people spending money, not hoarding mo…

The counter evidence is simple, it costs $300 billion a month to provide 300 million adults with $1,000 a month. That’s $3.6 trillion a year. That’s the entire federal tax revenue consumed by UBI. So you need to double everyone’s income tax to get back to even. Of course there is evidence giving people free stuff improves their lives. The problem is that’s an insane amount of money that has to come from somewhere. To…

The GDP per capita in the US is over $60000USD. 20% of that is a rather large chunk to directly redistribute to the workers, but is it an impossible amount? The effects of UBI on how we live our lives would probably be quite enormous and it's (to me, as a comp sci person) difficult to ascertain what its effects would be.

Re: Dhcpcd Will Need a New Maintainer

#179

Post by luckylion »

jimkleiber wrote: post #120
4ec0755f5522 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if UBI could be marketed politically in this way, e.g. "Finally paying for all the things you've already been using" or "Finally paying for the free labor you've based your life on" etc. type of messaging. I mean, it should be less guilt-y of course (I'm not in marketing) and somehow capture it's _society_ finally paying for the things generated by free/underpaid labor, not individual citizens, and not imply…

I love this! This thread got me thinking that nurturing/feeding/raising a child could be seen as something a parent does not just for their family but for society, and if it were for society, is it now a paid job that requires minimum wage? And all of the other things that are "volunteer labor" but for corporations, which technically in the US one can't very legally volunteer for a for-profit company without compensa…

Remember that, if you make it a job, you're no longer free to decide how you want to raise your children, what values to teach them etc, you're now just a caretaker that produces a labor source for their employer. I'm not sure that's such an attractive thought.
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