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Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

news.harvard.edu

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Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#151

Post by apendleton »

fakedang wrote: post #144
silisili wrote: post #140

Perhaps unpopular opinion, but the US vaccination system is about the worst when it comes to preventing spread. Instead, it seems to be attempting to prevent death. I've always argued that preventing spread would as a byproduct prevent death, but I'm obviously not studied in the field. Put shortly, I would have vaccinated college kids and working age folks first. They are not likely to die from it, but are far more l…

In that case, the vaccination system worldwide is the worst. No country I know of has prioritized those groups over elderlies.

China has been doing essentially this (prioritizing young people over the elderly): https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/voa-news-china/chi... . You're right that it's definitely not the prevailing strategy though.

(Also, sorry for the vaguely propagandist source -- I originally heard about this on a podcast and am having trouble determining which, and this doesn't seem to be getting much coverage in English-language print media.)

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#152

Post by rcpt »

fakedang wrote: post #144
silisili wrote: post #140

Perhaps unpopular opinion, but the US vaccination system is about the worst when it comes to preventing spread. Instead, it seems to be attempting to prevent death. I've always argued that preventing spread would as a byproduct prevent death, but I'm obviously not studied in the field. Put shortly, I would have vaccinated college kids and working age folks first. They are not likely to die from it, but are far more l…

In that case, the vaccination system worldwide is the worst. No country I know of has prioritized those groups over elderlies.

Indonesia is young people first

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#153

Post by sdenton4 »

kikokikokiko wrote: post #138
dragontamer wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its likely illegal for California to close its borders to Florida. But that probably would have slowed the spread significantly, at least in the 3rd wave where the Mid-Western / anti-mask states led the 3rd wave. This country was in this together. For better or for worse. Closing the borders of states was never an option.

I do not live in the US, but I love that your system allows you guys to have effectively 51 experiments on how to deal with the spread of a virus, and see the results of every strategy. Do you really think that, if you can't even control your borders between states, your border on the south with Mexico for instance, would ever be effectively controlled to avoid the virus to come through it? The complete failure of Ca…

California is far from a monolith, though. Alameda County, where I live, hasn't been that bad, and has had a strong lockdown policy. Other parts of california have larger populations of anti-maskers. And the California prison system has been a complete disaster, largely because of incompetence and inhumanity in the administration.

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#155

Post by xbmcuser »

apendleton wrote: post #151
fakedang wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case, the vaccination system worldwide is the worst. No country I know of has prioritized those groups over elderlies.

China has been doing essentially this (prioritizing young people over the elderly): https://www.voanews.com/east-asia-pacific/voa-news-china/chi... . You're right that it's definitely not the prevailing strategy though. (Also, sorry for the vaguely propagandist source -- I originally heard about this on a podcast and am having trouble determining which, and this doesn't seem to be getting much coverage in English-lan…

Countries that have stopped or at least controlled the spread can prioritise vaccinating younger population as that is unlikely to result in more deaths. Singapore has vaccinated its medical personnel (anyone working in a hospital or clinic) then 70 years old and above. Now it is moving to 60 year and above and all the front line workers like teachers, bank tellers, shop attendants, taxi/private drivers etc. They are not facing thousands of deaths so can prioritise protecting the most vulnerable as well as cut off the most likely high spread events.

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#156

Post by barbazoo »

fhunt wrote: post #89
rfrey wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because software development is a skilled trade, not a science. The consortium discussed in the article is made up of actual scientists who do actual science. "I am surrounded by bullshitters therefore all fields are equally deep in it" is not a correct view.

Then take data science or deep learning which is a science as sophisticated, same there. We trust experts from other industries so much that we do not tolerate any other view without having a clue what is going on ourselves. The reason is simple, we have our views, they are political and we refer to "experts" to make our views scientific. Just my opinion and I bet that a huge number will disagree again with this comm…

I think parent is talking about professions where the scientific method is followed. It's not about how "sophisticated" something is.

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#157

Post by onetimemanytime »

de6u99er wrote: post #112

A globally coordinated approach, similar to NZ's approach could have ended the oandemic already a year ago. Thanks to COVID-19 fatigue amongst the population, such an effort very close to impossible.

The only chance for lockdowns was in China, early on. Being a country with virtually unlimited money, manpower and an authoritarian regime Covid could have died in there. Quarantine enforced by millions of soldiers and police.

Once out, you're dealing with about 200 countries divided in tens of thousands of localities and hundreds of thousands of politicians with their own goals and beliefs. So, not doable.

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#158

Post by jedberg »

viraptor wrote: post #136
dragontamer wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its likely illegal for California to close its borders to Florida. But that probably would have slowed the spread significantly, at least in the 3rd wave where the Mid-Western / anti-mask states led the 3rd wave. This country was in this together. For better or for worse. Closing the borders of states was never an option.

> Its likely illegal for California to close its borders to Florida. I wonder if that's really the case. A year ago I'd say the same for Australia. Yet most Australian states closed their borders at some point as a response to local cases spiking. (I agree it's less practical in the US, but I do wonder about the legality)

Whatever the answer I feel like it would take the courts a few weeks at least to figure it out. California (or more realistically Hawaii) could have had a full three week border closure before anyone settled the case law.

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#159

Post by TameAntelope »

Covzire wrote: post #120
DoreenMichele wrote: post #110

I hope they are correct. I also hope we will continue to be more careful about germ control from here on out in myriad ways. I hope we do not blithely go back to "business as usual" in a way that fosters future pandemics as if we learned absolutely nothing here.

I worry also about an overreaction. At some level people who can survive a virus with little to no symptoms are better off contracting it than not, if only to form the antibodies to be ready for future mutants they might come in contact with. The behavior changes we make because of COVID could be dooming a lot of people to one day encounter much worse mutant viruses they could have been ready for.

Simply put, you don’t know if you’re someone who can withstand the virus.

Many people walk around untested, and demanding we act as if they’re ready and safe to have their health pushed to it’s limits is reckless.

Re: Vaccines should end the pandemic, despite the variants, say experts

#160

Post by hooande »

luxuryballs wrote: post #124
DoreenMichele wrote: post #110

I hope they are correct. I also hope we will continue to be more careful about germ control from here on out in myriad ways. I hope we do not blithely go back to "business as usual" in a way that fosters future pandemics as if we learned absolutely nothing here.

What we learned should be not to decimate small businesses like tossing leaves to the wind “don’t worry we’ll build back better!” and let people decide their own risk taking. I think that it’s almost more terrifying than the thing itself that more people aren’t mostly incredibly disturbed by the insane violations of privacy and speech. Literally you should not, in a free society, be able take such injurious actions b…

The problem isn't government tyranny. If half of the population decides it isn't safe to eat out at restaurants, then it won't make sense for restaurants to be open. Businesses and events are built on an assumption of a certain number of customers. If X% of the population decides to opt out of social life then it doesn't make sense for them to be open in the same way as before, government mandate or not.

You can't go to a birthday party by yourself. Even if you're fully vaccinated or don't believe that the virus exists. As long as the public perception was that people should stay home you would get essentially the same outcome, no matter what the government did.

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