Live data from Hacker News

Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

theguardian.com

171–180 of 217 posts

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#171
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I can tell, the affordable housing movement has been broadly co-opted by developers who leverage grants and incentives to expand their portfolios of rent generating assets. Regulations which include language like "X% of units must be for renters making There is a genuine affordable (and equitable) housing movement, largely built on urban equity-cooperatives and community land trusts, but those promising eff…

> Regulations which include language like "X% of units must be for renters making I get that this model favor large-scale, high-capital projects, but, given that it explicitly set's aside X% for the Doesn't more density + some X% set aside for affordable units generally positive? Maybe we need to play around with that X% better, but what's the alternative?

Inclusive zoning (the X% of a building must be affordable) is good because it's important to mix different economic classes in the same area. It makes the poor people richer and it makes commutes shorter.

When it gets high it's not a giveaway to developers. It's actually a backdoor way to ban housing construction; NIMBYs love to claim they want "real affordable housing" and then set the IZ requirement so high nobody can afford to actually create any.

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#172
There is a third option: a fully automated, smart sensor city that isn't built by an ad company that wants identity-linked behavioral profiles above all else. It's just as technically possible as the Google-shadow-profile one.

Sadly I don't think those will be built in my lifetime.

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#173
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t speak for every industry, but many Bay Area technology employers have set up satellite offices in Toronto and Waterloo and are paying significantly higher wages (note: I represent one of them). This is having a net effect of driving wages up; I see it in the candidates we lose to other companies who are doing the same. Consider looking for a new gig. Also, Sentry is hiring in Toronto: https://sentry.io/jobs .

Maybe they should consider doing an early cap on property taxes and property values before it becomes like the Bay Area where even if you work at Google you can't afford a house. There is rent control where I live, but no buy-house control, and there's almost nothing available below $2M USD.

You should read Henry George because you have the effect of LVT/property taxes exactly backwards. LVT is better than property taxes though, which have bad effects like sometimes motivating people to destroy their buildings to save on taxes.

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#174
post #89
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think lowering the number of immigrants coming in would lower the prices of housing? Any thesis around it?

Econ 101?

If you're posting "Econ 101" or "supply and demand" in response to a question about people, whether it's labor or immigration, it means you're getting the wrong result. People who do this always forget to consider both supply and demand instead of just the one that makes things look worse.

(Immigrants are a positive demand shock because they increase your customer base.)

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#175
post #123

When politicians say "people-centred vision", they really mean "lobbyist and special interest group centred vision". To them, "people" just means "whoever shouts the loudest".

Most of the work of good public consultation facilitators is (1) stopping those loud/frustrated/opinionated/entrenched people from distorting process, and (2) allowing many people to feel heard. (This is in addition to, of course, the more obvious: actually integrating that feedback, repeating it back, and acting on it.) Perhaps surprisingly with (2), public consultations are sometimes almost like public therapy -- a…

In Canada, "public consultations" tend to be far from good. They're almost always held -- or rather, were pre-COVID -- during regular business hours, with very predictable effects on demographics. The last one I attended had over 100 people; about 60% were retirees, and around 15% were college students. I was the only male between the ages of 25 and 60 -- because working-age males overwhelmingly spend their weekday afternoons at work.

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really that these cities are poorly managed or just that everyone feels entitled to live in the most expensive and desirable places? I don’t get the point of building up more - it’s just going to induce more demand (a common argument used by urbanists when it comes to road infrastructure). The real fix is that people need to spread out, and stop feeling like there are only two places to live in across such a la…

>(a common argument used by urbanists when it comes to road infrastructure) This just proves that you don't know how housing works. I'm not even talking about the market itself. I'm just talking about the concept of being allowed to live in a building for money. You have to pay rent to live in a house/apartment. Alternatively you pay a mortgage or you buy the house outright. None of this applies to road infrastructur…

> People also get to decide whether they want denser apartments meanwhile the city planner forces road construction upon you whether your neighborhood really needs it or not.

This isn't really right, you're confusing 60s style city planning with the modern approach. 60s style "urban renewal" built a lot of freeways everywhere without asking and destroyed many poor neighborhoods. This caused a backlash and the start of urban environmental activism (e.g. SF getting rid of the Embarcadero highway), and urban planning switched to the exact opposite approach it uses now, which is to never do anything without 5000 community meetings.

The result of this is… nothing ever happens, because the only people who show up to community meetings are retirees who don't want anything to change; nobody else has any free time. These people are less against roads than they are against houses though, because they mostly have no opinions other than hating traffic and liking free parking.

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what we need is to explicitly encourage human-scale ownership and development everywhere, through every means available, including zoning reform and tax policy. People focus on the zoning a lot, but it really is the tax policy. Look around Vancouver and you'll see little three story walk up apartments all over. They stopped making them in 1993 because the incoming Liberal government adopted an incredible deficit sl…

>> They stopped making them in 1993 because the incoming Liberal government adopted an incredible deficit slaying austerity approach which was in vogue at the time. What was "in vogue" at the time was a Conservative (sic) Mulroney government routinely outspending revenues resulting in Canada's federal debt crisis in the early 90s[1][2] which helped usher in the Cretian government and Paul Martin's austerity measures.…

This is true but there was a general wave of fiscal conservative liberalism at the time (see: Clinton, Blair).

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#178
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somebody who is frustrated shouldn't bother to get into politics or try to change things in big cities because..a lot of people live in them?? huh??

Becoming actively involved in politics is a quixotic endeavour with a high personal cost and very low chances of success. Moving out has much lower cost and much higher chances of solving your problem. Thank goodness some people get into politics anyway, but it is not a rational choice for a utility-maximizing actor.

It's actually not hard to get into local politics and you can certainly get things done. There's not a lot of competition or money involved and most people haven't figured out you can do it yet. Mainly what happens is older people will scream at you when you say you want a bike lane.

It does take a lot of patience though; you won't get much done in the first year or two.

Re: Toronto swaps Google-backed, not-so-smart city plans for people-centred vision

#180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Condos built in Toronto are mostly terrible for anyone that’s not single. They’re basically Airbnb speculation boxes in the sky. The city suffers badly from “the missing middle“ problem because of bad zoning. It’s a big part of why I moved away after living there 8 years.

Speculation up in the sky isn't really a problem since a) it's a tax base b) it's not hurting you since it doesn't take up land c) a condo is strictly cheaper than a house on the same land. If housing is expensive it's because there aren't enough houses or the land is too expensive, and it's true that much of this is due to zoning and similar restrictions like parking minimums.

It is hurting families because mostly only small 1 bedroom apartments get built which are more attractive to Airbnb investors. However zoning is probably the biggest problem, yes. Far too much of the city is zoned for single family housing.
Post reply on HN