Saw an interview a couple of days ago here on French television with the journalist who published a book about it recently. Lying to the public was baked into the test explosion right from the beginning. That is as much part of the trade as firing guns.
France grossly underestimated radioactive fallout from atom bomb tests, study
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Re: France grossly underestimated radioactive fallout from atom bomb tests, study
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
You should at least make the effort of detailing the enormous educational, medical, infrastructural resources (not to mention subsidies) that mainland France directs to these places. You’re not telling the whole truth, here.
No one ever said that colonial empires didn’t invest in their colonies. But the real question is how do the people who live their feel about the way their country is governed.
This anti-colonialism needs to cease. As a French person, do i have to choice about how much taxes we pay or whether we belong to the E.U.? No, I need to compose with my neighbors, who have an entirely different idea of my freedom than I have. Democracy is an illusion, we don’t actually choose our leaders, we are told who to choose, that is point #1.
Point #2 is, would those places be more democratic and wealthy if they seceded? Algeria is still governed by military and sending its youths to France because it’s a better country.
I’m not for or against the size if the French territory, I’m tired of anti-whiteness being disguised under seemingly principled arguments. Although your principle is sincere, good-willed and aims at improving the world, its side-effects are horrible if you are not also able to defend white people for all the good things they also did.
Basically, generalized hate in mass media + inability to talk about upsides is generally a preparation for a genocide, and UN wouldn’t save us given they are not principled, are filled with anti-white feelings, and the western civilization is only 10% of humanity so we wouldn’t win in a vote long-term. Do you believe the Western civilization should disappear? Because sure it did bad things but it is also the only one who ended slavery.
Re: France grossly underestimated radioactive fallout from atom bomb tests, study
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're talking about New Caledonia it's as really biased view. It was a special agreement following a stron crisis with the Kanak independance mouvement that allowed to agree on 3 independance votes. There's a big difference in votes between the people from metropolitan France and a much stronger support for independance in the Kanak population. We'll see next year what's the result is going to be, but the last on…
Kanak and new Caledonia is a very hard problem to solve, for France but especially for residents. The issue is more about identity and origin than independance at that point (but freedom is nice to have in any case). The past referendum results mean nothing, they were not rejected because people did not want to be free, but because they don't know who they are. And an independence vote won't be like Brexit, France ac…
Identity and independance are quite tight together though, no?
I think it was the idea behind having 3 referendums: to give people the time to think, debate and make their mind after having seen the bigger picture given by the vote (basically considering independance as a possible thing).
I would think that being colonised, and for such a long time, is a really complex situation to deal with and has a deep impact on everything.
As a white metropolitan french I feel the only right thing to do is to give colonised people the choice, the time to prepare for it and to not take any outcome personally.
In regards to Mururoa I'm glad the actual impact is becoming public now. This is part of the many shameful things that we did in colonies, and, even if it's impossible to make things right, we should take responsibilities on all the consequences.
Re: France grossly underestimated radioactive fallout from atom bomb tests, study
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
When Algeria was French performing nuclear tests there in the Sahara was not much different from the US performing nuclear tests in Nevada/New Mexico. The British performed tests in Australia for the same reason. It was not a question of 'caring' but simply that it was sufficiently big and empty while still being accessible to be deemed an acceptable option taking into account that having nukes was a top strategic pr…
Unlike Nevada and New Mexico, there were actually people living in those deserts. Surprising, I know, and yes there aren't that many. The biggest issue is that the Algerian people did not support the tests. As for the agreement with the Algerian government, it was signed during wartime. Allowing the tests was a condition without which France would have killed more people.
There are people living in Nevada and New Mexico, even within range of the test facilities: tests were carried out 65 miles from Las Vegas. Arguably the Sahara is better suited.
It's fair to criticise the way nuclear tests were carried out and perhaps whether they were needed at all, but this is a general criticism: My comparison with the US and the UK is to illustrate that the French did not do anything different or worse.
Re: France grossly underestimated radioactive fallout from atom bomb tests, study
#45France also did a lot of tests in Algeria, French docu: https://youtu.be/s0SUtQPgi9U
The US pioneered this in the marshal Islands, from 8 to 40 minutes here: https://youtu.be/vAfeYMONj9E
Not the brightest moments of human history...
Re: France grossly underestimated radioactive fallout from atom bomb tests, study
#46France is unique in the West as one of the few countries that unapologetically holds on to its colonies which it still regards as French territory. It continues to actively permit white settlers to migrate to New Caledonia and French Guiana, subtly ensuring the autonomy referendums are defeated and indigenous populations continue to be suppressed. It will come as no surprise that the French military are also actively…
If citizens vote in elections as equals with all others in the country it is not comparable to a colony. Instead you have an area which may want to secede from the country, which is a common problem in many countries throughout the world.
Re: France grossly underestimated radioactive fallout from atom bomb tests, study
#47France is unique in the West as one of the few countries that unapologetically holds on to its colonies which it still regards as French territory. It continues to actively permit white settlers to migrate to New Caledonia and French Guiana, subtly ensuring the autonomy referendums are defeated and indigenous populations continue to be suppressed. It will come as no surprise that the French military are also actively…
France straight up committed acts of international terrorism and murder against a western ally in response to criticism of its nuclear testing program in 1985.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_the_Rainbow_Warrior
This was a fully sanctioned military operation against an allied nation that had willingly sent its own citizens to die defending France from its enemies -- Twice in the previous 70 years.
Unique indeed.
Re: France grossly underestimated radioactive fallout from atom bomb tests, study
#48France is unique in the West as one of the few countries that unapologetically holds on to its colonies which it still regards as French territory. It continues to actively permit white settlers to migrate to New Caledonia and French Guiana, subtly ensuring the autonomy referendums are defeated and indigenous populations continue to be suppressed. It will come as no surprise that the French military are also actively…
The autonomy referendum are lost because of the insane amount of subsidies the mainland sends there that would disappear in case of autonomy. They already have a huge administrative autonomy. If you ask me the 'mainland' is actually too nice.
Re: France grossly underestimated radioactive fallout from atom bomb tests, study
#49France is unique in the West as one of the few countries that unapologetically holds on to its colonies which it still regards as French territory. It continues to actively permit white settlers to migrate to New Caledonia and French Guiana, subtly ensuring the autonomy referendums are defeated and indigenous populations continue to be suppressed. It will come as no surprise that the French military are also actively…
Not it’s not. UK has a lot of small islands colonized here and there and the US is an aggregate of colonies itself with its original inhabitants still robbed of most of their land.
Re: France grossly underestimated radioactive fallout from atom bomb tests, study
#50Earlier quoted context omitted.
When Algeria was French performing nuclear tests there in the Sahara was not much different from the US performing nuclear tests in Nevada/New Mexico. The British performed tests in Australia for the same reason. It was not a question of 'caring' but simply that it was sufficiently big and empty while still being accessible to be deemed an acceptable option taking into account that having nukes was a top strategic pr…
Unlike Nevada and New Mexico, there were actually people living in those deserts. Surprising, I know, and yes there aren't that many. The biggest issue is that the Algerian people did not support the tests. As for the agreement with the Algerian government, it was signed during wartime. Allowing the tests was a condition without which France would have killed more people.
Are you saying that nobody lives in New Mexico? I know some people who will be surprised to learn their family does not exist.