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The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

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Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#51

The range of the chestnut tree surprises me it's so limited. Almost US only except for southern Ontario. The tree is not southern, not northern not even mid-western it's pretty much a mid-Appalachian tree.

Except I think I know where one was growing about 20 years ago. I took a nut home intending to plant it, but forgot about it for years. I wonder if that tree is still there in Wisconsin.

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#52
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I would not cry if the biting mosquito that spreads disease, the bacteria that causes wet dog smell, and Cryphonectria parasitica went extinct never to appear again. Remember when Mao tried that with evil evil sparrows stealing seeds from the party and caused the greatest famine in human history? Fun times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign

Is there consensus on how significant the sparrow thing was to the famine? I would have guessed that the whole “you’re not allowed to have your own farms any more, you now have to work in these farms, but you don’t get to keep any of the food from these farms” thing was a much more significant cause.

This is a core reason many are freaked out by too much government.

If a company screws up. It goes out of business. Others will take its place. If a government screws up, oh well.

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#53
post #32

I recently bought a house in a wooded area. In the backyard was a large old tree that I could not identify. After much searching I figured out that it was a chestnut tree! The article says they are the "perfect tree", but the chestnuts are incredibly sharp and tough. Very painful to step on.

Green spiny balls of death with nuts inside? That's a Chinese chestnut if so, we have two or three on our property. Deer love them but I'm not a huge fan.

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate leaf-miners with a passion. I planted a bunch of citrus trees a while ago, and citrus leaf-miners ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllocnistis_citrella ) took a great liking to them. They nearly killed a few of the trees – and this is in a backyard with me attending to them pretty much every day. I hate to think of the industrial-scale agricultural damage these little jerks must inflict on commercial citrus o…

I once had the opportunity to talk with some apple growers in Washington (state). They said that they regularly sprayed their trees with a mix of water and soft detergent early in the season, to prevent parasites and larvae from taking hold. As I understood it, they viewed soap as a simple solution. It was not completely organic and natural, but it helped to keep pests away and it did not seem to cause undue harm to…

Interesting, I'll give that a try this Spring! Thanks for the tip. Soapy water in general doesn't seem like something that's problematic as far as eating the oranges later... whether it's technically "organic" or not is secondary for me. I guess that maybe raises an eyebrow about what "organic" means, if soapy water isn't acceptable.

The second year of the leaf-miners, I would go out there every morning and look for affected leaves, just so I could squish the little bugger inside the leaf before it could become an adult moth. It was satisfying, but never really helped.

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#55
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I would not cry if the biting mosquito that spreads disease, the bacteria that causes wet dog smell, and Cryphonectria parasitica went extinct never to appear again. Remember when Mao tried that with evil evil sparrows stealing seeds from the party and caused the greatest famine in human history? Fun times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign

Not all mosquito spread disease or bite humans and the ones that do are not a major part of important ecosystems. When DEET was used heavily it didn't collapse any ecosystems. If we eliminate those species, the non-spreaders will fill the niche while eliminating major human suffering. It is not comparable to killing any sparrow sized bird.

As far as we know. My argument is that large chaotic systems are often poorly understood by us and we have gotten it wrong many times in the past.

I agree that erradicating bad mosquitos feels like a win, but I personally don’t know if there’s any unforeseen effects.

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#56
post #18

This is exciting. The American Chestnut is an amazing tree that once grew with trunks as wide as a car. The article did not mention that once the blight was discovered, there was somewhat of a panic to harvest them, which rather reduced the genetic diversity and ruined the possibility of any natural resistance. The horrendous effect our species has on the diversity of life is incredibly sad, re: Dodos and Carrier Pig…

> But I would not cry if the biting mosquito that spreads disease, the bacteria that causes wet dog smell, and Cryphonectria parasitica went extinct never to appear again. Remember when Mao tried that with evil evil sparrows stealing seeds from the party and caused the greatest famine in human history? Fun times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Pests_Campaign

Remember when WHO tried that with smallpox and now humans don't die a hideous death, or survive with permanent disfigurement?

Fun times.

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#57
I worked in a plant pathology lab (Dr. Fulbright) at Michigan State University in 2007-08 which was studying C. parasitica. I would run to the fields on Fridays and collect samples to look at under a microscope. Behind my family’s land in northern Michigan, we have American chestnuts that were one of the few remaining stands in the state. They seemed to have some better luck than the rest, though they never grew too tall.

It would be wonderful for the Chinese chestnut to get the spotlight it deserves!

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#58

Very interesting article. I wonder about the second and third order effects of genetic engineering, but I would say I’m optimistic about a tree that’s engineered to survive a blight, whereas engineering crops so they can survive being soaked in cancer-causing poison that kills everything else in the field —- and then eating them —- seems far more concerning.

On the other hand, engineering corn to produce Bt toxin, which is harmless to mammals, such that less broad-spectrum insecticide must be applied to get the crop to harvest, seems like a straightforward win.

The toxin only affects insects which actually eat the corn, so it shouldn't be contributing to the alarming crash in insect population we've been seeing worldwide.

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#59
post #30

If chestnut trees were wiped out by 1940, that means Mel Tormé & Bob Wells, writing The Christmas Song in 1946 ("chestnuts roasting on an open fire"), were already being nostalgic.

The bight is believed to have come from trees introduced from east Asia. Here in the Pacific North West there are plenty of chestnut trees. Last autumn I picked like 4 or 5 full shopping bags full of edible chestnuts. They were delicious. I’m not sure if it is from American, Chinese or even Japanese chestnuts trees though.

It is highly likely that Mel Tormé and Bob Wells were roasting the east Asian chestnuts over the open fire.

EDIT: And I just found out that Bob Wells was born in Raymond, Washington. So it is entirely likely that the chestnuts that he picket and roasted in his youth were similar to the once you can pick today in the Pacific North West.

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#60
post #40
post #8

Under a spreading chestnut-tree The village smithy stands; The smith, a mighty man is he, With large and sinewy hands; And the muscles of his brawny arms Are strong as iron bands. -- Henry Wadsworth Longfellow

I'm intruiged as to your take on how this ties into this.

Longfellow was the great American lyric poet of the 19th century. The chestnut tree in question was an American chestnut, without a doubt. Thought it was a clever choice of quote, myself.

Longfellow was fond of trees. One fragment of his poetry I will always remember is "This is the forest primeval, the murmuring pines and the hemlocks", which my main lesson teacher in elementary school taught us as an example of dactylic hexameter. It is also the first verse of Evangeline, probably his best known poem in his lifetime. Now largely forgotten, which is a pity.

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