The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut • Hacker News Board

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#21

Post by space_fountain » Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 12:42 AM UTC

Isamu wrote: post #19

burlesona wrote: post #12

Very interesting article. I wonder about the second and third order effects of genetic engineering, but I would say I’m optimistic about a tree that’s engineered to survive a blight, whereas engineering crops so they can survive being soaked in cancer-causing poison that kills everything else in the field —- and then eating them —- seems far more concerning.

This is traditional cross breeding, not genetic engineering per se. Although I have to wonder why one way seems natural and the other not, when they are both guided by human intervention.

No actually. The article mentions it closer to the end, but what seems like it has a good shot of beating the blight is pulling in genes from wheat which apparently can produce chemicals to neutralize the acid the fungus uses to digest and kill the tree.

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#22

Post by space_fountain » Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 12:44 AM UTC

type_enthusiast wrote: post #14

leipert wrote: post #6

Interesting, because in Europe we have Cameraria ohridella [0] which wreak havoc on horse chestnuts. The moth replicates like crazy and the only recourse is collecting and burning fallen leaves every year. Luckily it looks worse than it is for the trees, they loose their leaves in August, but by then most of a years photosynthesis is done ( just losing like 17%) Anyhow American chestnuts are bad hosts for the moths,…

I hate leaf-miners with a passion. I planted a bunch of citrus trees a while ago, and citrus leaf-miners ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phyllocnistis_citrella ) took a great liking to them. They nearly killed a few of the trees – and this is in a backyard with me attending to them pretty much every day. I hate to think of the industrial-scale agricultural damage these little jerks must inflict on commercial citrus o…

A note. Typically non organic pesticides are less broad spectrum poisons but applied in higher concentrations since they "can't" hurt humans

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#23

Post by p1mrx » Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 12:51 AM UTC

Maursault wrote: post #4

This is exciting. The American Chestnut is an amazing tree that once grew with trunks as wide as a car. The article did not mention that once the blight was discovered, there was somewhat of a panic to harvest them, which rather reduced the genetic diversity and ruined the possibility of any natural resistance. The horrendous effect our species has on the diversity of life is incredibly sad, re: Dodos and Carrier Pig…

> bacteria that causes wet dog smell

Is wet dog smell caused by some particular bacteria, or would this be more like wiping out an entire ecosystem?

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#24

Post by jermaustin1 » Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 12:57 AM UTC

Maursault wrote: post #4

This is exciting. The American Chestnut is an amazing tree that once grew with trunks as wide as a car. The article did not mention that once the blight was discovered, there was somewhat of a panic to harvest them, which rather reduced the genetic diversity and ruined the possibility of any natural resistance. The horrendous effect our species has on the diversity of life is incredibly sad, re: Dodos and Carrier Pig…

> bacteria that causes wet dog smell

My dog had a terrible yeast allergy. His paws would swell, his hair would fall out. He was constantly itching. We had to bathe him twice a week with what was basically a shampoo form of Vagistat, and every day had to coat his paw pads in actual Vagistat, and in between the toes and pads. Oh and tons of steroids 10mg 2x day.

He HATED it, but it kept him itch free, and he never smelled like wet dog.

The steroids also served a second function we didn't know at the time, they kept his brain tumor under control for about a year until we found it and had grown too big to be controlled any longer. So it gave us an extra year with him before we had to put him down after 2 days in an induced coma trying to get the seizures to stop.

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#25

Post by justnoise » Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 12:58 AM UTC

fernly wrote: post #11

whyenot wrote: post #9

There is an old chestnut orchard in the Santa Cruz mountains above Silicon Valley that has the Asian, European AND American chestnut species. American chestnut has the smallest nuts of the three, but they are the sweetest and best tasting.

Are the Asian and European varieties different in other important qualities? The article mentions straight grain and rot resistance, besides trunk size.

In terms of the qualities of the wood, the Asian and European Chestnuts are less dense, less strong and has coarser grain structure compared to the American Chestnut. I might be wrong but I've heard the other Chestnuts don't grow nearly as large or as fast.

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#26

Post by scythe » Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 12:58 AM UTC

Curiously, resistance to oxalic acid is also a question in human health. We are protected by the symbiotic bacteria Oxalobacter formigenes, which normally functions to prevent oxalate kidney stones and is lost with some antibiotic treatments. So my first thought was to find a similar microbe that degrades oxalic acid and teach it to live on chestnut trees.

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#27

Post by scythe » Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 1:02 AM UTC

xxpor wrote: post #16

burlesona wrote: post #12

Very interesting article. I wonder about the second and third order effects of genetic engineering, but I would say I’m optimistic about a tree that’s engineered to survive a blight, whereas engineering crops so they can survive being soaked in cancer-causing poison that kills everything else in the field —- and then eating them —- seems far more concerning.

You should really read more about how modern herbicides work. Glyphosate disrupts a specific enzyme that only plants use. That's why genetic engineering works so well for resistance to it, you can simply eliminate the vulnerability. The issue isn't that it's cancer causing (there's next to no chance it is, the issues are with the surfactants). The real issue is that weeds are evolving to also have glyphosate resistan…

The concerning thing about glyphosate from a biochemistry standpoint is that it's a very small molecule. As any engineer knows, small objects fit in lots of holes. It's also got a phosphonic acid component which is not a normal motif in biology and could (maybe) disrupt the function of any protein that happens to bind to it.

The intention of glyphosate is reasonable, but the effect can be different.

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#28

Post by billfor » Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 1:27 AM UTC

I thought the Dunstan Chestnut was an American Chestnut that was blight resistant. I have one growing in my yard for the last 4 years and it's doing fine.

https://chestnuthilltreefarm.com/learning-center/dunstan-che...

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#29

Post by chrisseldo » Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 1:43 AM UTC

The novel "The Overstory" instilled a greater appreciation for trees, in general, but in particular for the American Chestnut.

Re: The demise and potential revival of the American chestnut

#30

Post by rdiddly » Sat, Mar 13, 2021, 1:45 AM UTC

If chestnut trees were wiped out by 1940, that means Mel Tormé & Bob Wells, writing The Christmas Song in 1946 ("chestnuts roasting on an open fire"), were already being nostalgic.