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Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

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Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#131
post #78

"Snobbery" is an incantation We speak to get a seretonin boost in the presence of people or groups that cause our seretonin levels to drop. It is one of many tools that can be used to attack or diminish those who are seen to have higher status than Us.

You've got the causation backward here. Snobbery is a tool that people use to assert or maintain social status, or in the attempt to attain it, especially at the margins (if you are clearly enough high status, you don't need it though you may choose it). Like other tools of the type (e.g. etiquette rules) it's main purpose is to define in-group/out-group dynamics in a way that is difficult to counterfeit for one reas…

Your are right of course (except for what you attribute to me in the first sentence). I was referring to the word "snobbery" and why it is spoken, you were explaining what meaning the word is intended to carry about the people it is used against.

Few people use the word to describe themselves as snobs (except ironically), and it is also rarely used about someone in one's ingroup. Rather, it is a derogatory term we use against others (of higher status or in competing ingroups).

All social groups have signaling systems that allows members (or wannabe members) to display that they are members in good standing of the group. Due to their exclusive nature, these signals may cause distress in outsiders, and perhaps especially outsiders who would secretly like to belong to the group.

And this is my point, when someone uses the term "snobbery", it is often saying something unflattering about the person saying it.

Sometimes, of course, the term is used to refer to someone of equal or lower status. In such cases, the term tends to hold a somewhat different payload, ironically to assert dominance or superiority over that person, by indicating, as you do, that the "snob" behaves has he/she does to disguise his/her uncertainty about his/her status, maybe in a sophisticated way. For instance, someone from an "old money" familiy can use this kind of accusation against "new money" individuals that display their newfound wealth in a "distasteful" manner.

Personally, I hold the opinion that the labeling is probably worse than the snobbery itself, and at least as effective at reinforcing distance and distrust between groups. If I spend time with people 10x as wealthy and twice as educated, I'm not provoked by their social signals (unless they are offensive on purpose). Likewise, if I spend time with people in a third world country that live on a dollar a day, I appricate it when they treat me like a person, not just someone representing the West, even if I do sometimes (without thinking) behave in ways they may seen as snobbery from their perspective.

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#132
post #127

It's interesting to note that my Indian wife had trouble wrapping her head around the concept of appreciating the meaty flavor of a hamburger with minimal seasoning when she first came to the United States

Without speaking for your wife, but speaking for myself and my parents, its NOT that we had any trouble wrapping our head around it, just that meat by itself didn't taste that good. Even in the US it is common to add other ingredients, like cheese, tomatoes, onions and tomato sauce and mustard to the burger. Otherwise you're just eating cheap meat and bread, and there's nothing noble about that IMO. Even at fancier p…

That's the thing, in a burger with little else I find there is a taste in the "meatiness", partially that's a matter of texture and moisture, although there's some other qualities of meatiness which I am not qualified to elaborate on. I do like having some seasoning to the meat, at least a little salt, but with an underseasoned burger with decent quality meat and not overcooked, there's still something there that I appreciate, whereas my wife would find nothing redeemable.

My wife has the better tongue for many things, for example there are many vegetable dishes she likes which I find boring, I think the water-i-ness of certain vegetables bothers me more and she is able to look past it to see the other flavors. But I still find I am better able to appreciate that aspect of meatiness.

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#133
post #9

In Italy we say: "A lot of spices are to cover the taste of bad ingredients". It means that if you use a lot of spices ( we _usually_ use only black pepper and salt ), you are going to cover the taste of the ingredients you are using, we believe that you need to use good ingredients to have flavourful recipes, if an ingredient tastes bad you shouldn't use it. Also we always search for the balance, there shouldn't be…

Quoted post unavailable.

Your over wrought and stilted writing does nothing to obscure the reality that you are a fucking moron.

India is roughly twice the square miles and three times the population of Western Europe, encompassing some 2,000 distinct cultures.

The notion that you can make any sort of comment about "Indian" cooking is absurd. Lets be real, you have probably had food from at most 2-3 regions. "Curry" isn't even an Indian concept, its a fucking British one based on a misinterpertation of the name of at most 2-3 dishes.

If there is any chance this post can be traced back to your real identity you should delete it as you look like a fool.

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I always thought saag was any sauce made primarily from leafy greens

I'm Indian and for me saag is "leafy greens" too. Spinach to be more particular. The thing is that in India some meanings change with geography and location. For example, for me bhujia meant this [1] for the longest time. However, when I moved to a different part of the country, bhujia also meant potato fritters. Then, there is bhaji which means fried veggies. But some people also call potato fritters as bhaji. [1] h…

Aha that makes sense, thanks

In the U.K. (at least while I was growing up) we had ‘Bombay mix’[1] which included your version of bhujia.

Bhaji and Pakora seem to be interchangeable in British-Indian cuisine. If the bulk is onion it’s called a bhaji, otherwise pakora.

Halwa is another one that can be wildly different, it seems. Though most parts of the world have their own version I guess, all irresistible but very different.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombay_mix?wprov=sfti1

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#135
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Butter chicken itself is the epitome of "covering up bad ingredients"

Which bad ingredients is butter chicken covering up? From what I recall the origins are to use yesterday's leftover tandoori chicken in restaurants. In which case it is reusing ingredients instead of throwing them away, not covering anything up. Funny how it worked and people try to recreate that flavor when they don't have leftover tandoori chicken.

Sometimes meat about to go off is used instead.

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#136
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if they meant saag paneer. The first google result for that recipe lists 21(!) ingredients and a 1 hr 20 minute prep time, but a difficulty of "Easy".

That's funny, when I googled it the first result was showing a 5 minute prep time and 15 minute cooking time. I've noticed that with Indian food there's many ways to skin the cat. If you start with fresh spinach you'd have a different prep time than with frozen spinach.

The one that showed up uses frozen spinach - https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/aarti-sequeira/saag-pane...

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#137
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

whoops, got my culinary knowledge put in place. 1) yeap, confirmed that's it 2) this was in Sri Lanka, they did also have sambal that is closer to the one with onions done in Malasya/Indonesia but this one was with coconut and no onions, more dry than wet, just fine strands of what seems semi-dry coconut with spices (smashed chillis?) and they served it in many regular places along the dal tadka? The idea I have is t…

>whoops, got my culinary knowledge put in place. Ha ha. No, to be clear, I didn't mean it in a critical sense. We all make mistakes and don't know a lot of things that some others do. It was in that spirit that I was sharing stuff I knew a bit better, due to being Indian. >1) yeap, confirmed that's it Cool. >2) this was in Sri Lanka, they did also have sambal that is closer to the one with onions done in Malasya/Indo…

"Only then do you get the amino acid profile that humans need for complete protein (from veg foods) - so said that book."

Your body actually maintains a reserve of amino acid and they do not need to be eaten in the same meal to be combined.

article by a registered dietician: https://www.theveganrd.com/vegan-nutrition-101/vegan-nutriti...

meta analysis: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VYIETAn9p2JdDompJkMUVO1_PSZ...

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#138
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not knowing where you are from, I'd take a guess at American as there is a sharp divide in garlic use between Italian and Italian-American cusine. Italian food typically has a lot less garlic in it and if you had it in any of the classic dishes like ragù alla bolognese or risotto alla milanese it would be surprising. Dishes like spaghetti alla puttanesca or aglio e olio are classic examples where it is used. Marinara…

I work at a foreign language instruction company. Two of the funniest moments happened at the same lunch. The Italians declaring, "Americans use too much garlic." And the Turkish declaring, "Americans have too many kinds of cheese. Cheese is just cheese." I've been known to put garlic, onions, and shallots into a dish.

Interestingly, Turks have broadly one type of cheese (not really true, but compared to France let's go with it) per use. So cheese really isn't just cheese.

You have your cheese for sandwiches and melting, you have your cheese for stuffing pastries, you have your cheese for breakfast, you have a couple of ones with special shapes like the braided ones. And please, try not to mix these up. The white cheese for breakfast is not the one for the pastry, even though it looks similar. And why do Europeans crumble any sort on their dishes and call it Turkish? The nerve!

In some sense, Turks are some of the least "Cheese is cheese" people I met.

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Indian, and some of the most amusing conversations I've had about food have been with Italians. An Italian professor was insistent that I stand up and defend the need for Indian food to use a million spices. He was proud of the fact that delicious Italian food could be whipped up using just three ingredients. I was in full agreement with him, that Italian food was wonderful, and that it was commendable how far th…

I have had similar conversations with Italians about food or coffee. They're very passionate about both and - at least when it comes to coffee - will also get into heated discussions over it with other Italians, not just foreigners. I think it's just the culture.

I have a different story. I come from a Northern country where there was no "good" coffee for decades, just regular filter coffee, usually too strong. We accept our inferiority in this regard.

When I was in Italy or France, I took a liking to their coffee. Sure, seems complicated for home use, but nice in a cafe or bar. To me, living in Paris, this was (at the time) good coffee.

So then I met an American, and when I related the above, I was told that the coffee wasn't actually that good at all, and I should try some real artisanal coffee like they do in New York. Luckily, this was getting popular in Europe as well. So, I tagged along to a new and hip coffee place and found, to my surprise, that the mysterious espresso machines had been replaced by good old filters, but with a very arcane and complex production process.

The other difference was that the coffee was weak and tasted more like tea than coffee. I did not like it at all, as I wanted a coffee and not some weak watery tea. I like all sorts of coffees - from espresso to filter to Nescafe - for their own unique taste, except this one.

Anyway, my point is that I found American coffee snobs to be more snobby than French or Italian ones.

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#140
post #9

In Italy we say: "A lot of spices are to cover the taste of bad ingredients". It means that if you use a lot of spices ( we _usually_ use only black pepper and salt ), you are going to cover the taste of the ingredients you are using, we believe that you need to use good ingredients to have flavourful recipes, if an ingredient tastes bad you shouldn't use it. Also we always search for the balance, there shouldn't be…

Quoted post unavailable.

1. Name me one original "American" dish. One. I should not have any roots in any other cuisine, neither should it be a derivative of something else. One completely original dish which you can claim as "American". What epic douchebaggery and pseudo culinary BS. Need open mind to enjoy food. Going by this article, you're a Class-A bigot.

2. If you can't stomach spicy food, you have a weak-ass stomach. Nothing to do with "masking" the quality of ingredients with extra spices or whatever. It just says you don't have the palate that can differentiate the different combination of flavours that spices produce.

3. Yes, you're being a total snob on top of being closed minded, disrespectful and being a total douchebag. If you want to eat those bland flavourless, colourless food that you claim as being "appetizing". What's one dimensional is your vision, taste and personality. Again, reiterating the point, a total douchebag like you would never run a kitchen, let alone being the bus boy.

Man, what a jackass. I don't get angry over internet douchebags but this, this was an affront to all food everywhere.

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