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On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

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Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#61

It's difficult but I'm not sure what the alternatives might be. The largest dairy farms can cut costs in ways which would not be practical for small farms because the capital expenditure (robotised milking parlours for example) or the market power (being able to negotiate on feed prices). The mega lots with thousands of cows can sell milk for less than it costs a small farm to produce it. The only available option is…

You forgot the most important advantage of scale:

Just barely comply with the letter of the law or be in the gray area, have a legal team that makes you harder to pick on and then wait for the regulators to figure out that the small guys are the easy targets.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#62
My niece is (was) a Milkmaid in Switzerland. Her family dairy farm sold off all the cattle a few years ago when the state de-regulated milk.

I remember the cattle were pastured across the road. There was an underpass for the cattle to get from barn to field and back. In the evening they would begin their trek, the herd gathering and filing through the underpass. Each cow would take her place in the barn, in a stall with her name, ready to be milked.

To be sure, they re-purposed the land and farm. The national polo team practices in the field and stables in the barn. So that's some income. But not the same.

My niece is a teacher now.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#63
post #36
post #27

On one point the article has made. Canadians are really really unhappy with their milk system, they have some of the highest priced milk in the entire world and they despise it. "probably through a supply management program similar to what Canada has" is a nonstarter for cityfolk. It would mean $4 milk.

I remember the first time I saw cheese prices in the US and almost cried. A 1 kg block of good cheese was like $20-30, not $60-90.

!

Decent cheddar is £7 / kg in the UK & that’s ignoring the cheap stuff.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that you're probably estimating bare minimum costs, but getting started for half a million dollars is actually way more affordable than I imagined you would describe. That's comparable to what some people pay for a middle class suburban home near a lot of the mid-sized metropolitan areas around the United States.

That’s literally the cost I just paid lol But yes, $500k is about the minimum. Plus ~40 acres. For grass fed beef you can raise probably 20 heads and buy supplementals. You might only make $5-10k up to maybe $30k (buying hay or leasing other land to grow feed) profit initially. BUT it’s not a ton of work, really only feeding the cattle every other day, doing injections on the cattle and cutting / bailing hay 2-3 time…

[deleted]

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that you're probably estimating bare minimum costs, but getting started for half a million dollars is actually way more affordable than I imagined you would describe. That's comparable to what some people pay for a middle class suburban home near a lot of the mid-sized metropolitan areas around the United States.

That’s literally the cost I just paid lol But yes, $500k is about the minimum. Plus ~40 acres. For grass fed beef you can raise probably 20 heads and buy supplementals. You might only make $5-10k up to maybe $30k (buying hay or leasing other land to grow feed) profit initially. BUT it’s not a ton of work, really only feeding the cattle every other day, doing injections on the cattle and cutting / bailing hay 2-3 time…

Couldn’t you feed a family high quality food for a few decades with $500k? This seems like a lot of effort if you aren’t planning on making a profit.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#66
post #27

On one point the article has made. Canadians are really really unhappy with their milk system, they have some of the highest priced milk in the entire world and they despise it. "probably through a supply management program similar to what Canada has" is a nonstarter for cityfolk. It would mean $4 milk.

To my knowledge there are still functional family dairy farms here in Ontario. And the cost of milk, about $4.80 (Canadian) for 4L, and butter (hovering between $3 and $6 per pound - we buy it on special, it stores well in the freezer) is really not an issue even for our family of four. So far so good. I'm glad to pay it if it keeps family farms in business. I grew up on a dairy farm in Germany (in the pre-quota days).

The issue is the quota system. A quick google says it's hovering around $25K Canadian for the right to ship one kilogram of butterfat (whole milk is about 3.5% fat) per day. This means the quota tends to be a farmer's single most valuable possession, and it protects idyllic family farms (good) but makes it prohibitively expensive to get into the business.

All in all, you can drive around in Ontario's farm belts and they still look pretty traditionally prosperous. We must be doing something right.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#67
post #36
post #27

On one point the article has made. Canadians are really really unhappy with their milk system, they have some of the highest priced milk in the entire world and they despise it. "probably through a supply management program similar to what Canada has" is a nonstarter for cityfolk. It would mean $4 milk.

I remember the first time I saw cheese prices in the US and almost cried. A 1 kg block of good cheese was like $20-30, not $60-90.

Costco is our salvation here in Ontario. Cheese prices are high, yes, but about 1/2 at Costco compared to anywhere else. They have good selection and quality. Reference is a 500g block of Jarlsberg at currently $9.50 Canadian. Expensive, but still affordable.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#68

As a vegan, I am concerned about the cruel treatment of farm animals. Losing family farms only aggravates the problem in this price race against the bigger actors in dairy production. While dairy is not strictly necessary for grown ups, I recognise that it will be present for some time so we should care about how it is produced. Dairy should be more expensive than it is now, similar to what happens to meat.

The dairy industry isn't the best to attack on animal cruelty. While there are bad actors within it, it's a small amount compared to it as a whole. Low stress cows produce noticeably better quality milk. This isn't a secret in the industry.

Wheat, soybean, avocados, palm oil and more are just as bad for the environment and animal life due to commercialization. Monoculture industrial farming is inherently unsustainable. High density growing of a single type of organism that requires outside resources to be brought it. Artificial fertilizer production isn't ecological either. The pest control required, and I'm not talking about bugs, I'm talking about rodents, birds, boar and deer, is pretty harmful for not just the animals, but for the regional ecosystem.

"Let's just make food more expensive for people! I decide what people should eat and when even though the purchasing power of the average individual is shrinking as is!" As an omnivore, I have to tell you, "slow down there Stalin". Then again, you're not wrong. You need less farmland if you starve enough people to death. Guess you're a fan of population control? Historically speaking, on average, anyone that advocates for the limiting of general food distribution to everyday people don't become well known as humanitarians or "good people".

You choose to be vegan, good for you. But don't pretend industrial farming of soy, peas and avocados don't have blood on their hands. The only vegans who can lay claim to the moral high ground are the ones that permaculture grow their own food. They get my respect, big time, since they're not virtue dieters.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#69
post #27

On one point the article has made. Canadians are really really unhappy with their milk system, they have some of the highest priced milk in the entire world and they despise it. "probably through a supply management program similar to what Canada has" is a nonstarter for cityfolk. It would mean $4 milk.

In Singapore, a liter (not gallon) of fresh milk starts from about $3. Then again, neither the Chinese nor Malay populace historically drinks the stuff.

Re: On the death of my family's dairy farm (2019)

#70
post #27

On one point the article has made. Canadians are really really unhappy with their milk system, they have some of the highest priced milk in the entire world and they despise it. "probably through a supply management program similar to what Canada has" is a nonstarter for cityfolk. It would mean $4 milk.

I don’t buy dairy at all because of how expensive it is here. A cheap block of store brand cheddar cheese costs $5. A 2L carton of milk is around $3, or I can get a 4L jug for $5. A small container of sour cream is $3. A single 100g Greek yoghurt cup is $1. Huge waste of money.

Big dairy in Canada is really powerful to the point where it’s impossible to get elected as Conservative party leader without supporting the dairy cartel.

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