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Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

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Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#101

Post by djpr »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #38
praestigiare wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of reflect on in this comment, if you care to do the work. You are mistaking your personal preference for a certain style of food for the "western norm" which is obviously not correct because you also exclude the French tradition, which most would consider part of the heart of western cooking. You then suggest that people with different preferences are either less informed (not a chef) or less sincere…

> There is a lot of reflect on in this comment, if you care to do the work. You are mistaking your personal preference for a certain style of food for the "western norm" which is obviously not correct because you also exclude the French tradition, which most would consider part of the heart of western cooking. You then suggest that people with different preferences are either less informed (not a chef) or less sincer…

Fantastic to hear you have that Michelin/James Beard experience. And as someone that does, I'm sure you know that style of cooking (esp. much of Michelin) is not the entirety of gastronomy.

I spend my time around the Michelin/50 Best chef crowd, so I hear often this "respect the ingredients" mindset, but it's just one mindset. It's limiting to think of spices "covering up" a bad ingredient, when one can also think about the dish in totality - which includes everything from spices to how its cooked to the quality of the main ingredients.

One can enjoy Asador Etxebarri, and the technical excellence on how the chef expertly plays with fire to complement the main ingredient, and also enjoy mole from Oaxaca, rendang from Indonesia, and so on.

You can also combine both. I have had phenomenal laksa in the Basque country, playing on the bright flavors of Asian spices and the amazing product (seafood) found in the Basque country.

Gastronomy is that full breath of that experience. We can prefer more one of the other, but you're cheating yourself to be so dismissive.

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#102

Post by [deleted] »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #27
maury91 wrote: post #9

In Italy we say: "A lot of spices are to cover the taste of bad ingredients". It means that if you use a lot of spices ( we _usually_ use only black pepper and salt ), you are going to cover the taste of the ingredients you are using, we believe that you need to use good ingredients to have flavourful recipes, if an ingredient tastes bad you shouldn't use it. Also we always search for the balance, there shouldn't be…

Quoted post unavailable.

[deleted]

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#104

Post by simtel20 »

djpr wrote: post #99
Arkhaine_kupo wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you suggest something that goes well with Cinnamon? Sure! I have to admit is not a spice I use too much. (Brings back nostalgia of rice puddings etc). But it is quite an autumnal spice, so think of it like something that would go well with those flavours. For example pork loins with apple can use a little clove or cinammon if you want to have it enhance the sweetness of the apple. It also works well with nice a…

To add to what Arkhaine_kupo said: In Southeast Asia, you can find cinnamon used in beef dishes, such as in beef rendang found in Indonesia and Malaysia. Typically a 2-3 sticks of cinnamon are thrown in, along with coconut milk, curry leaves, and more. Cinnamon is also added to chicken or mutton, such as in varuval (Malaysian dish adapted from a South Indian one). Over in China (and also in Chinese communities in Sou…

Yeah, 5-spice powder is usually dominated by cinnamon. I've been using cinnamon (along with szechuan peppercorn and toasted cumin) to make the garlic chili oil for biang noodles at home. Similar to how it helps in a garam masala, it adds a lot of depth when it's mixed with a vinegar and soy sauce. It's really an amazing depth that it adds. It also plays a part in making hoisin sauce.

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#105

Post by envp »

hnedeotes wrote: post #96
vram22 wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A couple of points :) 1. The yellow lentil dish is not usually called a curry (google the word 'curry', it is a much abused omnibus term for many Indian dishes). It is called a dal, as in "dal fry" or "dal tadka" (and not dhal(l) either :) 2. Coconut (or any) s a mbal is not an Indian dish, it is SE Asian, like Malaysian, although some Indian chutneys may resemble sambals in taste. India has a similar-sounding dish c…

whoops, got my culinary knowledge put in place. 1) yeap, confirmed that's it 2) this was in Sri Lanka, they did also have sambal that is closer to the one with onions done in Malasya/Indonesia but this one was with coconut and no onions, more dry than wet, just fine strands of what seems semi-dry coconut with spices (smashed chillis?) and they served it in many regular places along the dal tadka? The idea I have is t…

Regarding (2), were you thinking of sambar [1]?

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambar_(dish)

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#106

Post by dbuder »

Ruthalas wrote: post #85
sandGorgon wrote: post #7

if they had snobbish enough a few decades earlier, we would all be spared a hundred years of colonization, the Great Bengal Famine as well as the single most dangerous nuclear flashpoint that exists in the world right now.

Out of curiosity, what nuclear disaster are you referring to?

India and Pakistan border dispute, both having nukes bc the British split them up into Hindu and Muslim nations. I don't agree on a bunch of levels, but that is what they are getting at. For starters, the border dispute between India and China is much "hotter" right now.

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#107

Post by kinsho »

Melting_Harps wrote: post #27
maury91 wrote: post #9

In Italy we say: "A lot of spices are to cover the taste of bad ingredients". It means that if you use a lot of spices ( we _usually_ use only black pepper and salt ), you are going to cover the taste of the ingredients you are using, we believe that you need to use good ingredients to have flavourful recipes, if an ingredient tastes bad you shouldn't use it. Also we always search for the balance, there shouldn't be…

Quoted post unavailable.

You know, you could have ended your post by the end of the third paragraph and everything would have been fine. Your post would have been one's honest opinion about a particular cuisine, that's all. Even though I sincerely disagree with you (being an Indian man born and raised on Indian-style cooking) but at least I'd respect your opinion.

Then you treated your dislike of Indian food as some sort of objective statement, alleging most non-Indian folk like it only because of political wokeness. You illustrated that point by bringing up your sous chef's love of Indian food, despite this weird idea that his Aryan physical features should have marred his palette for life when it comes to food rich in spices.

There's some troubling racial undertones peppered throughout your post, let alone some serious notes of snobbery. Honestly, you seem like a bright guy, so I hope you take this moment to do some seriously deep introspection here. As it stands right now, it seems to me you harbor some old-fashioned beliefs regarding non-white people that are just factually wrong.

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#108

Post by simtel20 »

hnedeotes wrote: post #62
Melting_Harps wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Indian food is amazing, specially if you're vegetarian. If someone would ask me to choose a menu for 5 days out of a week, for breakfast, lunch and dinner between a 5* Michelin chef or yellow lentil curry with 2 rotis and a coconut sembal, I would go with the curry. Any day. When you look at vegetarian cuisine outside of india, with very few exceptions in terms of restaurants and few exceptions in terms of dishes, it…

> When you look at vegetarian cuisine outside of india, with very few exceptions in terms of restaurants and few exceptions in terms of dishes, it looks like unimaginative dimwits took to the pans.

If you've only experienced chinese food at the typical US chinese restaurant, then you may be deceived as to just how wonderful the underlying sauces and flavors can be. But if you get a chance to explore the space, you may want to look at the the "Chinese Cooking Demistified"[1] youtube channel, and on youtube there are 2 seasons of what look like culinary tourism bait called "Flavorful Origins"[2] (which is not exclusively vegetarian) I think that when you start to see some of the incredible available flavors in just the 2 regions they've covered (neither of which are szechuan, hunan, or shanghai, which are better known for their cuisine in the west), you may re-consider the sentiment I quoted.

Which in no way diminishes how incredible the vegetarian cuisine of india is.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC54SLBnD5k5U3Q6N__UjbAw

[2] https://www.netflix.com/br-en/title/80991060

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#109

Post by simtel20 »

hrisng wrote: post #40
Foobar8568 wrote: post #11

Well if you look at Chinese cuisine or even better, Cantonese one and dim sum, you realize that it was really to extract the most from scarce ingredients, not much meats or vegetables with a lot of carbs, and lots of seasoning to cover low quality ingredients. (I don't say the cuisine is bad nor not tasty, I am only talking about the cooking part).

And I absolutely love that about Asian cooking. Some ingredients do not taste good on their own, and would be thrown away in western cultures, but they really shine with the right spices and seasoning. Organ meat in a hot pot is amazing.

This recipe is the epitome of "it would be thrown away otherwise": it's braised pomelo skin [1]

I mean, it's the thick, bitter skin from one of the progenitors of a grapefruit, braised in a sauce until it's edible.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQomVDn4XA4

Re: Snobbery Helped Take the Spice Out of European Cooking (2015)

#110

Post by d13 »

castlecrasher2 wrote: post #82
helmholtz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Indian, and some of the most amusing conversations I've had about food have been with Italians. An Italian professor was insistent that I stand up and defend the need for Indian food to use a million spices. He was proud of the fact that delicious Italian food could be whipped up using just three ingredients. I was in full agreement with him, that Italian food was wonderful, and that it was commendable how far th…

Indian food is one of my favorites, saag being my top choice. I'm amazed at how many ingredients go into it.

Saag is just a kind of spinach.
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