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Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

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Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#21

Post by jimbob45 »

beloch wrote: post #12

The difference between Mac and PC keyboards is a real usability problem. If you're used to PC's or Linux, moving to a Mac and dealing with their shortcuts is painful, and vice-versa. The worst is using a mixture of both Mac's and PC's on a daily basis. Moving back and forth between platforms daily means you either have to get used to hitting the wrong shortcuts or use a hack to swap keys around on one platform so you…

Apple’s MO all along has been lock-in to their ecosystem any way they can make it happen, whether it be through their usability, their OS, their App Store, or iTunes.

They don’t want to be interoperable because then you might realize you’re paying a huge premium for an inferior product.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#22

Post by _lqaf »

jimbob45 wrote: post #21
beloch wrote: post #12

The difference between Mac and PC keyboards is a real usability problem. If you're used to PC's or Linux, moving to a Mac and dealing with their shortcuts is painful, and vice-versa. The worst is using a mixture of both Mac's and PC's on a daily basis. Moving back and forth between platforms daily means you either have to get used to hitting the wrong shortcuts or use a hack to swap keys around on one platform so you…

Apple’s MO all along has been lock-in to their ecosystem any way they can make it happen, whether it be through their usability, their OS, their App Store, or iTunes. They don’t want to be interoperable because then you might realize you’re paying a huge premium for an inferior product.

Mac keyboard shortcuts were created before Windows existed. And I don't think there was any keyboard-shortcut standard at all in X-land at the time.

It was Microsoft who chose to be different here.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#23

Post by newobj »

I just switched back to Windows at work for the first time in like... almost 20 years. I'm dying without readline-style controls. If this can offer those, I'm going to jump for joy. I already have the Magic Keyboard Utilities to let me use my mac keyboard as a Windows keyboard and put things in sensical places. (Left Fn & Ctrl -> Ctrl, Left Option -> Meta, Left Command -> Alt, Right Command -> Function modifier, Right Option -> Windows Key) But my god no readline (^a / ^e etc) and I'm just losing my mind.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#24

Post by NalNezumi »

Everyone is talking about keyboard shortcut but just 2 months old mac user (due work) the biggest "fuck you" feature I encountered in Mac was key-repetition.

In PC and Linux, if you push down any letter key and keep it pushed, it repeat the key with a certain speed. In mac you can't by default do this. You have to use the terminal and go to a system file, change a variable and reboot the mac. You can, in system preferences change "speed" and "delay" of this behavior but by default this only applies to the space/backspace/arrow key. As a vim user this was probably the most annoying thing I encountered in years.

Something so fundamental being different was like being told "yea, at mac land gravity is going upward. Better get used to it!". I sent a request to change my laptop to dual boot PC/Linux the next day

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#25

Post by newobj »

newobj wrote: post #23

I just switched back to Windows at work for the first time in like... almost 20 years. I'm dying without readline-style controls. If this can offer those, I'm going to jump for joy. I already have the Magic Keyboard Utilities to let me use my mac keyboard as a Windows keyboard and put things in sensical places. (Left Fn & Ctrl -> Ctrl, Left Option -> Meta, Left Command -> Alt, Right Command -> Function modifier, Righ…

Nope, guess not.

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#26

Post by lewispb »

I was pleased to discover recently that Microsoft PowerToys are a thing again and include a Keyboard Manager utility. It's really simple to use and works flawlessly.

It's nice to use an "official" product to remap the ctrl / cmd keys on my Apple keyboard while using my Windows PC.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/powertoys/keyboard-...

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#27

Post by notretarded »

NalNezumi wrote: post #24

Everyone is talking about keyboard shortcut but just 2 months old mac user (due work) the biggest "fuck you" feature I encountered in Mac was key-repetition. In PC and Linux, if you push down any letter key and keep it pushed, it repeat the key with a certain speed. In mac you can't by default do this. You have to use the terminal and go to a system file, change a variable and reboot the mac. You can, in system prefe…

When have you ever needed to repeat a key by holding it apart from typing aaaaaaaagh?

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#28

Post by SloopJon »

clairity wrote: post #10

i've always lamented the incompleteness of mac keyboard shortcuts compared to windows, but it's been a long time since i've used windows, so it's hard for me to remember specifics. but i do remember that multi-key shortcuts generally made more sense in windows. and you could alt-tab easily between windows of different applications, not just applications or just tabs/windows of the same application.

Although I too have lost my muscle memory, not having used Windows as my primary O/S in a while, one thing I miss is the ability to traverse through menus with a series of keystrokes; e.g., Alt-F, then p to print, as opposed to Ctrl-P. This came in handy for menu items with an obscure shortcut, or no shortcut at all.

Similarly, I would preface some programs in the Start menu with a unique number; e.g., Win, P, 1 opened File Explorer; Win, P, 2 opened the Command Prompt, etc. With the Windows 10 start menu, I just start typing, but it sometimes exhibits weird behavior, where it finds what I want after one or two characters, then changes to the wrong thing after I type another (correct) character.

I generally prefer the Cmd-Tab / Cmd-Tilde split on macOS to the Alt-Tab on Windows. However, after all these years, I still can't always predict which window is next--will I go back to the window I was just on, or keep going forward to another one?

Re: Kinto: Mac-style shortcut keys for Linux and Windows

#30

Post by dataflow »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #19

I used to get annoyed by the differences between platforms and apps. I had my Windows desktop tweaked out just so , and I knew how to set it up that way on a new install in a matter of hours. It kept me tied to Windows for longer than it should've. Then I went switched to Apple and stuck with it for many years, learning a new way. Then, just like with Windows, the rug was pulled out and I had little say in it, and I…

What made you switch from Windows to Mac? Was it the Metro UI everyone hates? Because you can get rid of that in 5 minutes and forget it ever existed after that.
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