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Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

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431–440 of 461 posts

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#431

I'd love to hear concretely what you guys who traveled actually gained from traveling the world? Because I always hear that it's really exciting and you get to go to exciting places - but what exactly did you gain in terms of perspectives besides your instagram pictures and cocktail stories? I've never get beyond this superficial in hearing people's travel stories online and IRL. Maybe it's just me; but the idea of g…

I find travel/experiences is a terrible way to make yourself a more interesting person. Some people can tell a story about a drunken brawl in a foreign country and make it boring. Another person can describe getting coffee in the morning and leave people hanging on their every word.

> I find travel/experiences is a terrible way to make yourself a more interesting person.

Maybe this is not to point of travel :-)

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#432
I quit a YC-funded start-up based in Shanghai in 2016 to be nomadic for nearly a year. Stayed in 10 countries around the Pacific (Singapore, Malaysia, Australia, US, Canada etc.).

My primary take-away from the the journey is that my wanderlust is finally satisfied. After a year, I stopped moving because, travelling isn't that fun at that point. I want to build large things and have long-term relationships, which is difficult when you are a rolling-stone.

I would certainly encourage my kids to do it when they've got the opportunity. But it's likely that I wouldn't do it myself in at least a decade.

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I said good faith explanation, but I meant good faith guess. I want you to explain what "Hong Kong destroyed" might mean when I say it because if we're not speaking the same language then we can't hope to see eye to eye. Clearly the city is still standing filled with people who aren't dead. Clearly it's not "destroyed" in that way. I want you to guess why I would say it, which means brainstorming potential ide…

Understood. Well, you might mean "destroyed" from the point of view of someone who wants to advocate for Hong Kong independence from China. Or destroyed from the point of view of someone wanting to publish certain news articles criticizing China. Or whether your university/school teachers are allowed to even mention Hong Kong independence. Or from the point of view of investors worried about the independence of the f…

I come from the direction that a place is most aptly defined by it’s culture. Buildings are inert. Infrastructure isn’t very distinguishable other than good and bad. Businesses are fairly interchangeable. People come and go. If you sum up the entirety of a place's values, interactions, and operations, its very way of life, I would call that culture.

So when I say “Hong Kong was destroyed,” the meaning is that there was a destruction of its culture. The word destruction is emotionally charged because a Chinese person probably doesn’t see what is fundamentally a replacement of Hong Kong culture (pretty western) with Chinese culture as destruction. So what you picked up on and dislike (the difference between explicit reality, and my coloring of it) probably has its heart in this interpretation. If you were a Chinese (nationality) person you might, somewhat rightly, feel insulted or wronged by this interpretation of events. I definitely agree it is somewhat hyperbolic, not because it is "fashionable," but because it's an emotional reaction to an atrocious appearing saga.

My first hand experience in Hong Kong is that it was one of the most open and diversity friendly places in Asia. It felt free. I had political conversations people felt safe having. People were fairly vibrant. It was filled with money and ambitious people. I met more rich people in Hong Kong than anywhere else by far. English was better in Hong Kong than anywhere else in Asia by several orders of magnitude. It was, apparently, a bastion of rule of law, rather than rule by law. It certainly seemed well run. I could use the internet.

My experience in China is that it was the least diversity friendly place in Asia. It's the only place I traveled I experienced direct racism (at me and at others). It did not feel remotely free. I experienced people scared to have political conversations. Some areas felt vibrant, and some areas did not. I have never gotten the sense that china was a place with rule of law. I have heard first hand from one American English teacher arrested for saying the wrong thing, and another who was threatened with it. The internet is restricted and free thought is denied. When I said the wrong thing it was “corrected,” like I can’t have my own opinion or at the very least it's dangerous to.

I talked with a fair number of Hong Kong people while in Hong Kong. China was very much seen as an enemy. They certainly had the opinion that china conducted itself as an oppressing force, forcibly migrating people in, forcibly redistributing resources, forcing political change via edict, gutting of the legal system, corrupting the rule of law, and imposing cultural changes. Hong Kong people I met in other countries shifted from vibrant to discouraged over time. I have not heard any Hong Kong person praise China once.

Add in the very good marketing/propaganda by the protestors and there is a very compelling case to me that china’s goal is not to integrate Hong Kong, but to dominate or extinguish Hong Kong culture entirely, which in my estimation has been successful.

How much grassroots pro china press was there? None, because they had no moral or just claim to do what they did. It was all about power, and china executed its power. I could not imagine myself as a Chinese person at all, but when I was in Hong Kong I felt like a Hong Kong person. I can empathize with the videos I saw. I can empathize with the statements I read. I can empathize with the people I talked to. I can empathize with the outrage that made it to the internet. I cannot see how a good person would find ruling of another people without their consent palatable, much less with their explicit protest.

A free people have been turned into an oppressed people and, to me, that is the destruction of a free culture, a culture tied directly to the city.

> how did you join the concerns of the group for whom the city appears to have been destroyed?

Those are the people I talked to. Those are the stories that made it to media I read. I have never seen, heard, or experienced anything that contradicts my interpretation of the situation except by people exerting power (Chinese government) in a way that made me feel it was bad faith propaganda.

The Hong Kong protests were to some degree freedom porn to Americans. Our indoctrination from birth glorifies exactly what the protestors were doing to the highest most patriotic thing one can do. From the revolution to the civil rights movement, the protests resonate with our curriculum on multiple levels. When comparing our history to what we see, Hong Kong protestors are clearly and unequivocally the good guys.

On related points: The framing that this is a fight that only matters to the 1% is a framing I personally consider to be mostly Chinese propaganda, but I can see why a reasonable person would find it compelling. The framing that this is an American plot to mess with the Chinese government is something I guess there is historical precedent for and certainly alignment for, but it's hard to excuse the authoritarian response. I don't find it even remotely compelling personally.

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#435

Any person from a developing or a third world country would never even get the visa to travel so freely as described by so many in this thread. There is a lot of inherent privilege that enables these kind of life opportunities.

Yes! I am from India and just the immigration paperwork I will have to do to travel round the world fills me with dread.

Travel round the world is a privilege that we don't have

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#436

I'd love to hear concretely what you guys who traveled actually gained from traveling the world? Because I always hear that it's really exciting and you get to go to exciting places - but what exactly did you gain in terms of perspectives besides your instagram pictures and cocktail stories? I've never get beyond this superficial in hearing people's travel stories online and IRL. Maybe it's just me; but the idea of g…

I spent 3.5 months backpacking in India and Southeast Asia. I saw incredible places and stood in a hundred postcards. For me though, people are what had the most impact. Tens of thousands of Hindus come to die in Varanasi each year. If you die and are cremated there, you are freed from the cycle of rebirth and can attain salvation. I stood with an Indian friend on the edge of tears as I watched them burn the dead. He…

Interesting, although I don't believe there is a 3rd class anymore. That was a British era thing from what I know.

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#437

I'd love to hear concretely what you guys who traveled actually gained from traveling the world? Because I always hear that it's really exciting and you get to go to exciting places - but what exactly did you gain in terms of perspectives besides your instagram pictures and cocktail stories? I've never get beyond this superficial in hearing people's travel stories online and IRL. Maybe it's just me; but the idea of g…

I have not traveled the "world", but I have been to a few places. I think I know where you are coming from, but your comment about going to a local city's meetup for a language doesn't make sense. As an adult, immersion is often the best way to pick up a new language. How many Americans who learn Spanish can actually speak it? I also deplore the instagram crowd, but perhaps I am extreme, I rarely take photos. At the end of the day, I believe people are the same everywhere, but they are also different. This dichotomy makes traveling interesting - when you figure out for yourself how a different culture is similar or different than your own.

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#438
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now, almost, 10 years later it just feel like it never happen, memories are fading fast as I went with settled life. Dang. As a nerd in his late 20s thinking the same, you make it sound pretty bleak, tbh. I guess it's just time for me to settle down, then go explore the world with my partner because that's what matters EOD.

Memories of anything fade. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t have an effect. I went to a spanish speaking country for eight months, learned Spanish, now still speak Spanish. And also came to know the country well. Still have friends from that time. That’s absolutely transformative. The further you get from it the less it is relevant to your daily life, but it definitely has an impact. But it also is no miracle. If you’re an (u…

Very insightful point. Your current state depends on your previous state. You don't go through life unfazed. Every experience turns you into what you are the next day, which results in repeated transformations. A small change in your life then, e.g (deciding not to go to a Spanish-speaking country) would result in many changes, including your comment not existing, and me never having written this comment. Then it's funny to consider the chances that I would have gone on to make a life-changing decision because of this thread.

Pretty interesting stuff.

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of everything I learned and experienced in traveling one thing stands out above all the others: "self improvement is the primary good in your life" Traveling involves a lot of hedonism, and one day while traveling you suddenly realize you are on a hedonic treadmill. The first amazing meal you eat is life changing. The second one is about 50% as novel and good as that. Then you're comparing the next meal to 2 others,…

Great comment, could you expand on "Someone broke down to me why china is the way it is from an informed and educated position in a way I found mostly compelling"?

The thing that most needed explaining to a westerner is the great firewall of china and lack of freedom of speech. The argument that was made was foreign media dominance would result in 1 billion people being too unwieldy to effectively govern. Without it you have literal peasants with no education being directly exposed to potential (and probable) western manipulation. That manipulation could be political (overthrow the government) or economic (buy American goods) and the cost is direct exploitation of Chinese people and a failure of society to operate at scale. Words like century of humiliation, opium, forced open, and the like were used here too. Western exploitation and manipulation of China is not taught or explained in American schools, nor is it really taught that western powers came in and ransacked the country, to what extent they did, nor the mechanisms by which they (we) did it.

The standout paradigm shift for me was the statement "we want to democratize, but we cannot because our public is uneducated, you cannot have democracy without education." After seeing Hong Kong, I decide that I don't really believe china wants to democratize and this was likely a lie the person I talked to believed themselves, but I believe in the second half of the statement. Growing up in America you never really analyze democracy or its properties, you just understand that it's good and the correct way of life as any good indoctrination will do. Live free or die. A pretty important property of democracy to consider is that it will function as well as the half of its most poorly educated people. It doesn't take much observation of how bad faith republicans are to see the consequences of a society dominated by its least educated people. There is a clear tradeoff between individual sacrifices of rights and the well being of society overall that I think can be argued for successfully here even if I disagree with it personally. Not being the dominant culture ups the stakes on loose controls.

The overall idea of protectionism being necessary but unideal was compelling to me. The overall idea of hard limitations on how society can operate based on the properties of that society was compelling to me. There was a mental shift from right and wrong, to pros and cons and tradeoffs, which is much more healthy discussion to be having.

Another key concept that was explained was the idea of planned vs actual corruption. It was explained that there is a planned acceptable level of corruption in China, and that this is mostly seen as lubrication, a guarantee, or a bounty to get stuff done. Unfortunately, rather than corruption growing linearly in a planned way, it was growing exponentially in an unplanned way and this was causing problems.

The IP theft was somewhat of a "your country was built on it, too" thing. There was a bit of "you have so much, you should share." Somewhat similar with the "we were colonized, now we want to colonize" idea. I think there was a bit of "you wield power or it gets wielded against you." I don't agree at all, but returning abuse you've received onto the world is an unfortunately human thing to do.

I would not utter the words Taiwan, Uighur, Tibet, or Falun Gong while in China, because that seems foolish, so I didn't get any kind of satisfying explanation for those, and there probably isn't one that would be acceptable or satisfying. I suspect at best the explanation would be "look what America did to native Americans," or other justification by precedent.

China knows it benefits from outside experts and it has 1000 talents and other things to get Chinese people, especially, back in the country, but with english being nil, and a culture that is fairly anti-foreigner that is an uphill battle, so there was significant worry about the pace of innovation.

There was a bit of reference to the term "locusts" (not by me) and the reputation Chinese tourists have. There was a fair amount of acknowledgement but also explanation of sudden wealth growth and historic lack of education resulting in low class behavior.

Some of the more high profile IP theft cases (vials in bags) were explained by the idea that that behavior had been consistently happening and it was understood by all parties involved that it was happening, until one day feds showed up. I didn't buy that so much.

There was also a fair amount of "we're nobodies, so we're not at risk" talk when it comes to speech, but I can't operate in a society like that because it's far too much exposure to vulnerability.

I got a mild run down of some of the mechanics of corruption, good faith corruption, and bad faith corruption.

I definitely started to get a lot of the understanding that dealing with the incredible amounts of poverty, dealing with large amounts of systemic corruption, dealing with entrenched power structures, and balancing that against hostile foreign super powers that would almost certainly exploit you was a pretty incredible task. As evil as I think china (the government) is for what it is doing, when you look at its struggles it paints a picture you have to respect, it gives a lot of empathy to the struggles of a Chinese well edcuated person, it makes you feel empathy for the average ignorant person.

I think of all the takeaways I had it was just how significant fear was as a primary policy motivator. Generally, unethical behavior is understood to be a product of unchecked ambition and therefore comically evil, but the idea that most of the unethical behavior is motivated out of fear was fairly compelling.

Re: Ask HN: Those who quit their jobs to travel the world, how did it go?

#440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firstly: agree that there are some aspects of travelling that will be looked down upon in the future, particularly exploiting the difference in the cost of living. But travelling was massively beneficial for me. I'll focus on the biggest trip, which was a year backpacking. > what you guys who traveled actually gained from traveling the world? * I worked and rented in another country. So I had to work out how to do th…

Thanks for your insightful reply. Could I kindly ask you to elaborate on this point? How did you find families to stay with? Thank you very much! > Staying with families in different countries and seeing how they lived, how they treated their kids, and their priorities. This was very formative in deciding how to live my life.

Sure. In my case it was friends of family, and family of friends, sometimes a little distant but people were welcoming enough. Those were the best because you could stay a while and they were more relaxed with you, they usually wanted to show you around their town etc.

Also, sometimes I stayed in hostels that were small, family-run, more like a home than a hostel. So you saw the family life there too.

And some families rented out spare rooms. You used to meet people at a train station or other travel hub and size them up (does this happen now?). Sometimes get recommendations from other travellers going in the other direction. Important to note I wouldn't recommend this in general, particularly if you're female or travelling alone. And it requires a good deal of careful judgement and experience. I don't think I'd do this alone.

Maybe Airbnb makes this easier and safer nowadays. I've stayed in a lot of spare rooms in the US via Airbnb and had similar experiences.

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