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We created a fake language to root out resume liars

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Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#651

Post by aequitas »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #128
brigandish wrote: post #77

> That way, when candidates were pitched to us with "X years of MOVA experience", we knew that somebody was full of it. I'd put my money on the recruiter. I once had an excruciatingly awkward interview at a company on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhereland with no train station nearby that took me bloody ages to get to… which was actually going well until they asked me about my long experience with Exchang…

In the spirit of Hacker News I'd like to respond to this decidedly human problem with a technical question: which file format did you use for your CV? Was it an easily-edited .docx file, or a PDF? The PDF format is somewhat awkward to edit. I've never put much stock in the idea that this is one of its virtues, but for this specific kind of manipulation I can see it might be effective.

If they come to me with a vague offer they can get my LinkedIn URL, and if they can't work with that, or really need a .doc then the conversation is mostly over for me.

It might seem harsh, but it's an easy way to weed out lazy recruiters that just want to spam your C.V. to many clients based on a keyword match when they upload it into their automated system and the recruiters that want to take time and even invest into a relationship to build a decent portfolio.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#652

Post by ogre_codes »

NoOneNew wrote: post #393
jefftk wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't list it as a requirement; list it as something that would be nice to have.

I was just thinking this. If it's labeled as an optional skill or something like that, I see nothing wrong with it. Applicant has no reason to lie about it. Have confidence in their other skills. At the same time, we have this new thing called search engines. If a language can't be found, they'll probably figure out that it's trap. Even better for the company. A person who won't lie and/or can research out BS for the…

Indeed, I often see jobs where listings include “Technologies in our stack” or “It would be nice if you also knew...” would be a good way to do it.

IMO that’s fair game for monkey business.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#653

Post by stiray »

brigandish wrote: post #77

> That way, when candidates were pitched to us with "X years of MOVA experience", we knew that somebody was full of it. I'd put my money on the recruiter. I once had an excruciatingly awkward interview at a company on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhereland with no train station nearby that took me bloody ages to get to… which was actually going well until they asked me about my long experience with Exchang…

Just a question, is it common in your country to actually bother with recruiters? I ignore them by default as I consider it a slimy business and quite frankly I dont care what they have to say. If I am interested into working for some company, I will send them an email, regardless if they are recruiting or not and I was rejected in around 30% (but I do have something to show in my resume or even if they ignore it, in my hobby projects). 3rd party recruiting, with their generic letters? Come on, at least try.

But I must say this is something relatively new to me, I started to get those letters on linkedin like 2-3 years ago, is this like a common practice?

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#655

Post by cmorgan31 »

CodeMage wrote: post #640
monoideism wrote: post #626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Sure aren't Java and C# are pretty much the same thing?" While it was extremely unethical for him to change your CV, Java and C# are indeed very similar, to the point that most organizations use devs with that background interchangeably. If that company really ruled you out because you had 7 years of C# experience, and not 7 years of Java experience, you likely dodged a bullet.

> If that company really ruled you out because you had 7 years of C# experience, and not 7 years of Java experience, you likely dodged a bullet. Respectfully, I disagree. Things that you should learn over 7 years of experience go far beyond learning the language itself or the fundamentals of its standard library. We're talking about two very different ecosystems.

Yeah, there's some truth to both your points. If you need to backfill someone for an existing production project that doesn't have the bandwidth to train them effectively you are setting that person up to fail. This is why tech interviewing is such a pain in the ass though as there are a lot of competent programmers who can pick up new languages quickly. When we decide on who to hire while at megacorp it is always - generalist or specialist. When we decided on who to hire while at a start up it was always - growth minded and quick learner.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#656

Post by dylan604 »

guenthert wrote: post #554
dylan604 wrote: post #446

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the applicant get bonus points if the call out the BS "nice to have skill" in their cover letter?

There are thousands of programming languages, how would you know that any given doesn't exist?

If you're the employer, you'd know that you put the non-sensical item in the job posting. If someone calls you out on it, then you know they at least are not bullshitting you. If you're the applicant and you feel strongly about it being bullshit, then the question is do you get bonus points for knowing that.

The how would know it doesn't exist is what separates the chaff from the wheat.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#658

Post by gtk40 »

DoubleGlazing wrote: post #340
brigandish wrote: post #77

> That way, when candidates were pitched to us with "X years of MOVA experience", we knew that somebody was full of it. I'd put my money on the recruiter. I once had an excruciatingly awkward interview at a company on an industrial estate in the middle of nowhereland with no train station nearby that took me bloody ages to get to… which was actually going well until they asked me about my long experience with Exchang…

Had the almost exact same experience, but with Java. I'm a C# developer and although I have some experience with Java, I don't have enough to list it as a skill on my CV. Anyways, in this interview I was being asked about Java and I answered every question by saying I don't really know Java. The interviewers were obviously getting annoyed. So I asked "Sorry, I thought this was a C# job?". No, it was a Java job and ma…

> Now that is why if I ever have to send my CV to someone it will only be a PDF version.

Although it depends how you generate it how easy it will be, Word has built in support for editing PDFs. So does LibreOffice (in Draw I believe). It's pretty accessible to non-technical people without expensive software to edit PDFs nowadays.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#659

Post by gtk40 »

gjvr wrote: post #445
noneeeed wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a recruiter say "XML and UML are basically the same, right?". There's almost a dangerous level of knowledge among some recruiters where they think they know enough to do crap like this.

Ha Ha. Thats’s even worse than the ‘C Hashtag’ that an HR dude was rambling on about.

It's funny how "hash" sort of became a mainstream way to pronounce "#" but not quite.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#660

Post by DoubleGlazing »

jedmeyers wrote: post #617
DoubleGlazing wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had the almost exact same experience, but with Java. I'm a C# developer and although I have some experience with Java, I don't have enough to list it as a skill on my CV. Anyways, in this interview I was being asked about Java and I answered every question by saying I don't really know Java. The interviewers were obviously getting annoyed. So I asked "Sorry, I thought this was a C# job?". No, it was a Java job and ma…

> Anyways, in this interview I was being asked about Java and I answered every question by saying I don't really know Java. The interviewers were obviously getting annoyed. So I asked "Sorry, I thought this was a C# job?". Are those types of exchanges still take place at the interviews? I was lucky enough to avoid them, having worked at companies that are able to afford to spend extra time training people. Those type…

Pretty much every interview I've had has been like that. Asking lots of exam style question about the language/platform.

In my experience most employers say they want good programmers, but in reality they want quick programmers. People who can get the product out the door ASAP. And that's why I wouldn't take a Java job without learning the ecosystem first. Even if they promise training, there's a high chance of them reneging. So I would end up in a stressful situation trying to learn as I go.

I'd rather stick with what I know and what I'm good at.

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