Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

aeon.co

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 156 posts

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#101

Post by tern »

We need not only look to the dead to uncover our deepest values. We can look to mystics, and other masters of the world's religions who spent their entire lives inquiring directly into these questions, armed with their own masters' guidance and millennia of roadmaps painstakingly drawn out by countless others who attempted this before them.

Here in America we often think of Religion as dogma, or as a philosophy, when in reality there are many through-lines that are more adequately characterized as a process of intense questioning and exploration carried on continuously since the beginning of civilization.

After so much effort, the conclusions are quite stable, and you will find them most accessibly in the Indian, Tibetan, and Chinese canons.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#102

Post by watwut »

nineplay wrote: post #51
coldtea wrote: post #4

For a: - "I should have done X" (regret because X wasn't followed) there are probably as many: - "I should not have done X" (regret because X was followed and made things shit) Even the "should not have worked as hard" would be most likely balanced with others saying: "should not have been as slack or loose at work, and did something important, made some legacy" In the end, nothing really matters, and the perspective…

The "I should not have worked as hard" deathbed quote has always bugged me. There are plenty of people who think they could have been more or done more. It's not a perfect example, but there are plenty of "Walter White"s who taught high-school science and think they were capable of so much more. I find it is happening among some women I know who chose to stay at home and now, as the kids are getting older, are thinki…

"I should not have worked as hard" is an attempt to make people who work too much now to engage more at home. I honestly doubt this is a thing dying people say all that much. Frankly, if they valued their family, they would spend more time with them years before.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#103

Post by jjk166 »

taxicabjesus wrote: post #43
pomian wrote: post #23

The most poignant last words I heard from someone about to die, and did 2 hours later: "I don't want to die." Gives one a lot to think about.

> "I don't want to die." Gives one a lot to think about. Doesn't seem poignant, I think this is sad. In a previous comment I said, "In America we have an odd relationship with the inevitable. Sometimes people get a terminal diagnosis, and sometimes they fight it. ..." [0] Fighting the inevitable is not a noble way to go. Sometimes people can forestall their passing for a few weeks, months or years, but the reaper com…

Do not go gently into that good night, rage rage against the dying of the light.

There is no nobility in surrender. There is no reward for acquiescence. Resistance to the bitter end, squeezing everything you can from life while you can, and making the most of what has been gifted to you - that is the noble course.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#104

Post by jbroson »

keiferski wrote: post #6

Eh, as someone with a degree in philosophy, it’s this sort of overanalysis that has led to the field’s sidelining. The so-called folk wisdom stated by the dying might not be logically rigorous, but it’s a perspective that we would do well to remember. Being trite or simple doesn’t make something wrong. My own personal theory is that the deathbed perspective is quite similar to the childhood one: without the constrain…

What is "overanalysis" in this piece?

It seemed a fairly straightforward if slightly controversial position to me. I'm not even a philosophy major.

And as someone who has been near death before I tend to agree with what the author claims. When I thought I was dying I had regrets that in my late twenties I didn't have a family and kids.

Luckily I recovered and have been healthy for 4-5 years since. I'm still not married and don't have kids. Why did I think it was so important when I thought I was dying?

Hard to say but I think because I was terrified of dying, the unknown, and wanted some piece of me to live on into the future. Now that I'm not in that position I realize that I actually don't want kids at least at this point in my life.

And me having kids or not isn't going to change the fact that after I die, hopefully many years from now, I will be completely forgotten in 100 years, probably less. Maybe an old photograph on my grandkids wall. That's true of 99.9% of us.

Your "deathbed perspective" is important but the hackneyed old idea that it's THE true insight into what's important in life is oversold, IMO.

When you think you're dying it terrifies you, I don't care who you are, I've seen enough people go through it that the "I'm not afraid of death" braggadocio is horseshit in almost every case. Your views on life when you're terrified of the unknown are important, sure, but not THE most important, or best insight into what life is.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#105

Post by toto444 »

js8 wrote: post #26

Is it considered valuable? I heard that people on deathbed typically say they should have gone for more friendship and less money/power, but I don't see that many people valuing that perspective. :-)

> but I don't see that many people valuing that perspective. :-)

You don't have the chance to talk to them because when you are working hard at the office with your like minded colleagues they're at the pub like minded friends.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#106

Post by unphased »

mongo_lover wrote: post #73

As someone that has had one or two "deathbed" experiences, I can say two things struck me about them 1) I felt complete peace about dying. In fact, I had to reason myself towards wanting to live 2) I felt a level of clarity about what was important to me that I have never felt before (or since). I struggle to incorporate that into my life on an ongoing basis. I think these experiences were a terrible gift. I would wi…

Thanks for sharing a piece of how it felt. I'm curious what the circumstances around that were, if you don't mind.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#107

Post by Maximus9000 »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #32
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am more and more getting irked by the "should not have worked so hard" crowd, or to be more precise, the ones that go "just quit and go backpacking". Great if you're young, wealthy and have a good social safety net (read: rich parents), not so much for the other 99% of the population. I tried it once, going out of my comfort zone to do the backpacking thing, but it just wasn't for me. I'm not very social, have trou…

That seems like valuable perspective. You are not one who likes to be alone with their thoughts too much. What's the version of quit and go backpacking for someone like you? My brother did the same thing and like you did not enjoy it. He thought it was too boring without another person. I havnt dont it but I'm very comfortable with really limited social contact and live in my own thoughts. If I had two good knees I'd…

Agreed. I've travelled a lot with my wife (We've been to 24 countries). I enjoy travelling with someone. A few times, I travelled alone... it's kind of boring alone. There are lots of people who say positive words about travelling alone like "empowering", "liberating"... but I didn't find that at all.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#108

Post by jedberg »

SamBam wrote: post #94
jedberg wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but if you are, you'll certainly have a lot more time for them. Edit: If you want to. Being a millionaire gives you the chance to choose to spend time with friends instead of doing chores, because you can pay people to do chores.

Really? I know a number of high-achieving people and they tend to spend a lot of their time achieving more. (Trust-fund kids, on the other hand, do have a lot of time for socializing. Unclear whether they are happier than others or not, though.)

I didn't say they would spend more time with friends, just that they could.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#109

Post by jbroson »

taxicabjesus wrote: post #43
pomian wrote: post #23

The most poignant last words I heard from someone about to die, and did 2 hours later: "I don't want to die." Gives one a lot to think about.

> "I don't want to die." Gives one a lot to think about. Doesn't seem poignant, I think this is sad. In a previous comment I said, "In America we have an odd relationship with the inevitable. Sometimes people get a terminal diagnosis, and sometimes they fight it. ..." [0] Fighting the inevitable is not a noble way to go. Sometimes people can forestall their passing for a few weeks, months or years, but the reaper com…

Yeah, this seems nice to say but much harder to actually do.

As someone who has been quite close to death and recovered, I can say with 100% certainty you truly have no idea what that bone-chilling terror is to know that you could well and truly die soon and there's nothing you can do about it.

The unknown is one of the most terrifying things known to mankind. Death is the ultimate unknown. Why else would so many religions involve either an afterlife or reincarnation? Because believing we will turn to dust and cease to exist is incredibly tough to grapple with!

So yeah, good luck on dying as the valiant hero bravely staring down the long sleep!

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#110

Post by leetcrew »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #15
coldtea wrote: post #4

For a: - "I should have done X" (regret because X wasn't followed) there are probably as many: - "I should not have done X" (regret because X was followed and made things shit) Even the "should not have worked as hard" would be most likely balanced with others saying: "should not have been as slack or loose at work, and did something important, made some legacy" In the end, nothing really matters, and the perspective…

I am more and more getting irked by the "should not have worked so hard" crowd, or to be more precise, the ones that go "just quit and go backpacking". Great if you're young, wealthy and have a good social safety net (read: rich parents), not so much for the other 99% of the population. I tried it once, going out of my comfort zone to do the backpacking thing, but it just wasn't for me. I'm not very social, have trou…

there are a lot of ways to "not work so hard" other than "just quit and go backpacking". I share your utter lack of interest in backpacking. to me, "not work so hard" means picking a good job, but not the most ambitious one possible. it means closing my IDE at 5:30 and finishing that last bug the next day. this leaves me with more time and energy to spend on non-work-related people and activities that I value.

and in a way, I suspect that backpackers and intense travelers have traded one form of "working too hard" for another. "making the most of your youth" is a FOMO perspective. I prefer to focus on appreciating what I already have.

Post reply on HN