Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#91

Post by oleander73 » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:54 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #6

Eh, as someone with a degree in philosophy, it’s this sort of overanalysis that has led to the field’s sidelining. The so-called folk wisdom stated by the dying might not be logically rigorous, but it’s a perspective that we would do well to remember. Being trite or simple doesn’t make something wrong. My own personal theory is that the deathbed perspective is quite similar to the childhood one: without the constrain…

I agree. I was diagnosed with an incurable illness last year and retired after that and I feel much more free to just say whatever I want and not worry about what people think about it.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#92

Post by jjk166 » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:55 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #21

Iv wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Deathbeds are where people have maximum experience and low incentive to lie. Nothing magical. Louis XIV saying "I loved war too much" on his deathbed gives a perspective to his life achievements.

There is plenty of incentive to lie on your deathbed. A lot of people spend their entire lives worrying about how they’ll be remembered.

For the dying, caring about other's perception is a luxury. For the living, it is a necessity. Any incentive to lie on your death bed is irrationally self imposed, which is not to say that it doesn't happen but that it doesn't have to.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#93

Post by rg2004 » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:56 PM UTC

timwaagh wrote: post #53

I don't need to die to know that the commonly advocated clichés do in fact matter. But you know I need money to make that happen.

Have you considered what it would take to achieve your goals without the use of money? Give it some thought, I was surprised to find it was possible.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#94

Post by SamBam » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #85

notriddle wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to be a millionaire to make friends.

No, but if you are, you'll certainly have a lot more time for them. Edit: If you want to. Being a millionaire gives you the chance to choose to spend time with friends instead of doing chores, because you can pay people to do chores.

Really? I know a number of high-achieving people and they tend to spend a lot of their time achieving more.

(Trust-fund kids, on the other hand, do have a lot of time for socializing. Unclear whether they are happier than others or not, though.)

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#95

Post by nullserver » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

jacquesc wrote: post #60

nullserver wrote: post #36

Got to deathbed (series of strokes) etc. Then had the poor grace to get better, sort of. Made sure to say what I wanted to kids, (best I could). Reached out to ones that I wanted to. The experience definitely changes perspective. Spending time with loved ones is far more important. Work is far less, except when I need a break from loved ones. I really stopped giving any sort of sh*t what anyone thought. So I’m much l…

This perspective actually seems so much more interesting. Deathbed survivors.

It’s grim, but bridge jumpers that actually survive will often speak about how the unsolvable and overwhelming problems change a moment after stepping off bridge. As in how losing that job doesn’t seem so bad now.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#96

Post by watwut » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:57 PM UTC

Iv wrote: post #16

keiferski wrote: post #6

Eh, as someone with a degree in philosophy, it’s this sort of overanalysis that has led to the field’s sidelining. The so-called folk wisdom stated by the dying might not be logically rigorous, but it’s a perspective that we would do well to remember. Being trite or simple doesn’t make something wrong. My own personal theory is that the deathbed perspective is quite similar to the childhood one: without the constrain…

Deathbeds are where people have maximum experience and low incentive to lie. Nothing magical. Louis XIV saying "I loved war too much" on his deathbed gives a perspective to his life achievements.

They still lie for emotional reasons. Because of what they want you to remember about them or because setting old scores and what not.

And it is also the time when they are in pain, under influence of various drugs that doctors prescribed to manage pain, confused about where they are, because sickness or injury make them so.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#97

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:58 PM UTC

> the dying value exactly the things that our culture tells us all to value: the themes that fill our advertising and magazines

This is a strong, frustratingly unsubstantiated claim. Do we see deathbed wishes vary across cultures in variance with advertised values? Did deathbed wishes “sync up” when mass advertising took hold?

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#98

Post by _pastel » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 4:59 PM UTC

keiferski wrote: post #6

Eh, as someone with a degree in philosophy, it’s this sort of overanalysis that has led to the field’s sidelining. The so-called folk wisdom stated by the dying might not be logically rigorous, but it’s a perspective that we would do well to remember. Being trite or simple doesn’t make something wrong. My own personal theory is that the deathbed perspective is quite similar to the childhood one: without the constrain…

It's not the overthinking part of this essay that reflects poorly on the field of philosophy. It's the complete lack of interest in evidence.

> For one thing, the status of the (so-called) hindsight bias is contested

Why? Were some seminal studies in hindsight bias overturned? This sounds interesting!

...Oh. No, some other guy thought really hard and decided it doesn't make sense. This must be a philosophy paper.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#99

Post by m12k » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 5:01 PM UTC

I've been reading some pop-psy books recently (Stumbling on Happiness and Thinking, Fast and Slow) and a recurring theme is that we remember many things in a different way than we experience them in the moment. This can cause weird biases, e.g. where we choose to repeat experiences that are more painful than other options, because we remember pain inaccurately. But one point the books both make is that this is not necessarily irrational per se - we often remember things much more times than we experience them, so optimizing for the memory of them can make sense.

Re: Why is the deathbed perspective considered so valuable?

#100

Post by TeMPOraL » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 5:02 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #77

TeMPOraL wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It matters, in the same way intent matters when you cut somebody with a blade. Was it attempted murder? Self-defense? Carelessness? Accident? Surgery? Lies, similarly, are fundamentally destructive - a lie is a piece of invalid data that corrupts, to smaller or greater extent, the minds of everyone who come in contact with it. Incorporating a lie in your reasoning moves you further from accurately perceiving reality.…

I would hope lies to protect another person from harm are allowable. We suspect an enemy of the revolution is being harbored in hour house. Are you hiding this person? (forgive the preposterous example, but I hope you get my intent). It could be someone hiding from a jealous lover, someone hiding from loan sharks, etc.

That's why I mentioned surgery at the end of my comparison with blade cuts. Much like cutting into a body is traumatic for it, but is sometimes require to save it, sometimes the ethical benefits of a lie far outweigh the costs. Yours is a very good example.

There are also more fuzzy ones. Since I mentioned medicine: there's an ongoing discussion in the medical community as to if and when lies by omission are OK - is there a point to informing the patient about something they can do nothing about, when if they learn about it, it would cause them great amount of emotional distress? Caring for health doesn't mean just servicing the body like a mechanic, but also catering for person's emotional well-being.

The point I was trying to make is that lies, by default, are bad things (much like being cut by a blade). Intent, care and consequences are what can make lies very bad, or - sometimes - good.