We created a fake language to root out resume liars • Hacker News Board

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#111

Post by dmos62 » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 9:49 AM UTC

rrmm wrote: post #75

josephg wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to do some work with a software consulting firm. There was a ping pong table in the office, and while talking about rates, our CEO liked to offer clients a 15% discount on our services if they could beat Joe from accounting at ping pong. He did it as a bit of a running joke, and to see how people reacted to the offer. What our clients didn't know was that Joe was terrible at ping pong. But that didn't matter -…

I'm always wary of a Sir Gawain and Greenknight sort of situation. And sure you'll say it's only ping pong: But that's how they get you.

I'm intrigued. In the fable the game is a clever test of knightsmanship. What makes you wary of this sort of situation?

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#112

Post by prepend » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 9:50 AM UTC

antonvs wrote: post #91

zelos wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain how?

Something to do with blockchain, I assume.

NFT for physical objects is the new hotness. That way they can just demonstrate ownership of the plant instead of having to move it around.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#113

Post by ALittleLight » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 9:53 AM UTC

dmos62 wrote: post #111

rrmm wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always wary of a Sir Gawain and Greenknight sort of situation. And sure you'll say it's only ping pong: But that's how they get you.

I'm intrigued. In the fable the game is a clever test of knightsmanship. What makes you wary of this sort of situation?

It's been a while since I've read it, but doesn't someone get decapitated in that clever test of knightsmanship?

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#114

Post by prepend » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 9:54 AM UTC

k4tz wrote: post #99

hangonhn wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how Dunning Kruger are you to put that down? Like chess has a pretty well known rating system that even a moderately interested player would know about. So in the case of chess you can’t even claim that you didn’t know you are not that great. You can put down you’re decent at Java or C++ or Python and actually be not that great at it because you have nothing to measure against. But in chess there is a rating syst…

This is a good take. I like to play chess recreationally; I also know I'm terrible at chess. Never in a thousand years would I put it on my resume.

It depends where. Under skills seems silly, but under interests seems reasonable.

I have a single line on my resume with interests. I don’t list chess, but list cryptography. Because I’m interested in it.

I just have that line to help with chitchat during the interview. If some interviewer interpreted that to mean I was a professional cryptographer and that I sucked at it, that would be dumb of them.

I also list an interest in kayaking, even though I suck at it.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#115

Post by chordalkeyboard » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 9:58 AM UTC

dagw wrote: post #97

chordalkeyboard wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well people are saying its ok to lie to get the job too. Either both are wrong or both are ok.

While both are "wrong" in a more absolute sense, they are both so common and accepted that you really should assume it is happening and act accordingly.

I agree. Assuming it is happening is different than approving of it or agreeing that it is ‘ok’ when the subject comes up.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#116

Post by prepend » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 9:58 AM UTC

fergie wrote: post #37

I find it particularly ironic that it has fallen to a Facebook group of Cold Fusion programmers to call out poor choices. Those of us who actually worked at 1st generation dotcoms know that absolutely nobody had any idea what they were doing, even at the "proper" ones, and things were moving so fast that you absolutely _had_ to fake it until you made it.

I really hated ColdFusion. It made PHP hacks seem like beautiful poetry.

So it’s funny that ColdFusion folks would complain about any stupid recruiter. But CF peeps are people too.

My opinion is based on having to fix a lot of CF code from people who were “faking it until they could hire prepend to make it.”

It’s funny that Allaire now runs RStudio and when I learned that I considered not using it anymore because of some lurking, unknown to me technical debt. But I’m sure he’s a smart person and CF was not terrible due to him being bad. So I’m still using RStudio.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#117

Post by arethuza » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 9:58 AM UTC

dmos62 wrote: post #96

arethuza wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get as angry with recruiters as everyone else, but then I remember then time where I worked for a company that shared a floor of a serviced office building with a recruitment company. They were brutal in their treatment of staff - they were too cheap to get rooms for staff appraisals so they would do them in the coffee area we shared with them so we could hear how they were treated by their management - seeing peop…

Jeez louise, imagine working somewhere where coworkers are regularly abused to tears. I really hope that that's an isolated case.

It was a branch office of one of the big UK recruitment companies - I can't remember their name (it was ~10 years ago).

I suspect the management knew that berating people in a semi public area added that extra level of humiliation - their managers were all pretty scary and I didn't even work for them!

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#118

Post by that_guy_iain » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 9:58 AM UTC

austincheney wrote: post #107

Why even bother with a fake language when so often the industry has devolved into some sick level of honest negligence? For example: rarely do candidates need to know JavaScript anymore or even some unnecessary framework. Now people trade in experience of some tool that says nothing of anything: React Flux Capacitor (or some other bullshit like they want to go back in time to make lots of money without any real skill…

Honestly, the thing I hate the most about IT is how bad it is while no one admits to it.

These are problems I've encountered at several companies:

* No budget for tooling. Be that software outside the ide or be it for hardware.

* Cargo cult is so much bigger than anyone will ever admit.

* The lack of caring about other departments. We're a team and we need to work as a team so the company can make money to pay our salaries. I've seen it to the point where one guy was willing to cause two departments weeks worth of work to avoid doing two days worth of work.

* The amount of stuff that is just broken, people keep complaining about it being broken and it causes a pile of hassle for other people but just stays broken. Or it's point out it's broken and a big meeting is called to deal with it and then nothing is really done.

* The amount of people who don't know what they're doing. So many people seem to have 1-year * x experience. They reach a certain level and they just stop.

* The amount of people who don't even know what they're talking about - https://toggl.com/track/developer-methods-infographic/ a prime example, kanban is literally how they make cars it's we work on one bit and the next area deals with the next part. The image should have a car manufactoring factory as is. But instead they have nonsense.

* The amount of patting themselves on the back saying we're doing a great job while the system sucks and nothing is getting better and employee churn is sky high.

Honestly, I think if people from other industries worked in IT for a year they would be completely shocked at how crap it is. I don't even think the hiring part is wrong, I think the entire management process of IT is wrong and causes more chaos so you end up with people who are heavily specilised in tools who are considered expert engineers but can't read UML.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#119

Post by LudwigNagasena » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:00 AM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #10

This reminds me of an anecdote I read once, maybe in Liars Poker, about how lots of people applying to this hedge fund put "Chess" on their resume somewhere thinking it made them seem like a deep or strategic thinker. As it happened, at this hedge fund there worked a former Soviet master or grandmaster ranked player. And so, whenever interviewing any candidate who claimed great proficiency with chess on their resume,…

I wouldn’t put “chess” onto my resume unless I was at least titled. Otherwise, what is a signal that it sends to the hedge fund crowd of overachievers? That you have a hobby that you managed to not get good at?

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#120

Post by underwater » Wed, Mar 10, 2021, 10:01 AM UTC

lsh123 wrote: post #40

mssundaram wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really lousy, I wouldn't have even bothered applying to that because I'd assume you had unrealistic expectations or no idea what you are talking about.

I was (and still am) interested in hiring people who would challenge manager, TL, ... and speak up if they think something is not right. That was just one of the filters.

Most gotcha tests like this are trying to filter for a general attribute with a overly specific response. Which, coincidentally, turns out to be the exact response that the interviewer would have had. They're good for determining if the test taker is the test author, and not much else.