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We created a fake language to root out resume liars

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Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#21

Post by iwangulenko »

A12-B wrote: post #3

I admire resume liars. The job market isn't fair and you should do anything you can to get ahead. (Employers are going to pull tricks like this, so why not? Just be smart about it)

Tech recruiter here. Firms on average are more dishonest than jobseekers. The reason is simple: If you do something often enough, you get sloppy.

For instance, if you start going to the gym, at first, your exercise execution is perfect but after some weeks you get sloppier and sloppier.

Same here, firms that are hiring constantly tend to get fatigued. Jobseekers, however, are "active" for some weeks until they switch jobs; this is why you, as a jobseeker, need extra training during your jobhunt, to be on-par with them.

I don't recommend lying but I do recommend tailoring your resume such that it reflects actually what you did in an adequate level of detail. Most job seekers are too honest on the CV and during interviews.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#22

Post by mudita »

ALittleLight wrote: post #10

This reminds me of an anecdote I read once, maybe in Liars Poker, about how lots of people applying to this hedge fund put "Chess" on their resume somewhere thinking it made them seem like a deep or strategic thinker. As it happened, at this hedge fund there worked a former Soviet master or grandmaster ranked player. And so, whenever interviewing any candidate who claimed great proficiency with chess on their resume,…

So, as a bonus, the ones who were not lying about being good at chess were probably really happy about the chance to play a grandmaster! :)

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#24

Post by josephg »

ALittleLight wrote: post #10

This reminds me of an anecdote I read once, maybe in Liars Poker, about how lots of people applying to this hedge fund put "Chess" on their resume somewhere thinking it made them seem like a deep or strategic thinker. As it happened, at this hedge fund there worked a former Soviet master or grandmaster ranked player. And so, whenever interviewing any candidate who claimed great proficiency with chess on their resume,…

I used to do some work with a software consulting firm. There was a ping pong table in the office, and while talking about rates, our CEO liked to offer clients a 15% discount on our services if they could beat Joe from accounting at ping pong. He did it as a bit of a running joke, and to see how people reacted to the offer.

What our clients didn't know was that Joe was terrible at ping pong. But that didn't matter - from memory he was only ever challenged once in the many years I was there.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#25

Post by nomel »

bpodgursky wrote: post #8
A12-B wrote: post #3

I admire resume liars. The job market isn't fair and you should do anything you can to get ahead. (Employers are going to pull tricks like this, so why not? Just be smart about it)

I think there's merit to this... within reason. Stretching a couple years of Java experience into a decade? Meh. Claiming you know Perl, because you're super familiar with other scripting languages and can learn quickly? Meh, probably. But since MOVA is, definitionally, fake, it's not like you have any idea * what * you're claiming to know. There's a level of BS here that isn't calculated, and I think that makes for…

> Meh. Claiming you know Perl, because you're super familiar with other scripting languages and can learn quickly?

I've seen that backfires with people I interview. I have a limited time with each person. If you're saying you have experience but obviously don't, it means everything on your resume has to be considered as "possibly false". It brings a much more critical eye to that type of candidate, with lots of discussion and questioning that probably wouldn't have happened otherwise.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#26

Post by sdoering »

This reminded me of a talk [1] at pyData Berlin some years ago.

Vincent demonstrated how he used some ML techniques to create fake pokemon sounding names to put into his LinkedIn resume. So that he could filter out headhunters without any real knowledge.

To quote from my notes [2] of the conference:

> There is a striking phonetic similarity between big data technology and pokemon names. Can you create a service that generates strings that sound like potential pokemon names? And what might be the simplest possible way to make that into a service? Also, would it be possible to generate pokemon names that start with three random characters and end with 'base' (KREBASE, MONBASE would be appropriate but IEYBASE would not be).

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hR4peP9V4A

[2]: https://gist.github.com/sdoering/37203f3301c6f0b9f48f76a976a...

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#27

Post by bpodgursky »

nomel wrote: post #25
bpodgursky wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's merit to this... within reason. Stretching a couple years of Java experience into a decade? Meh. Claiming you know Perl, because you're super familiar with other scripting languages and can learn quickly? Meh, probably. But since MOVA is, definitionally, fake, it's not like you have any idea * what * you're claiming to know. There's a level of BS here that isn't calculated, and I think that makes for…

> Meh. Claiming you know Perl, because you're super familiar with other scripting languages and can learn quickly? I've seen that backfires with people I interview. I have a limited time with each person. If you're saying you have experience but obviously don't, it means everything on your resume has to be considered as "possibly false". It brings a much more critical eye to that type of candidate, with lots of discu…

Yeah, I wouldn't personally do it, and I'd expect the candidate to crash-study before the interview enough to make it a plausible story. I just wouldn't consider it a * hard * disqualifier, if the truth came out.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#28

Post by goatinaboat »

iwangulenko wrote: post #21
A12-B wrote: post #3

I admire resume liars. The job market isn't fair and you should do anything you can to get ahead. (Employers are going to pull tricks like this, so why not? Just be smart about it)

Tech recruiter here. Firms on average are more dishonest than jobseekers. The reason is simple: If you do something often enough, you get sloppy. For instance, if you start going to the gym, at first, your exercise execution is perfect but after some weeks you get sloppier and sloppier. Same here, firms that are hiring constantly tend to get fatigued. Jobseekers, however, are "active" for some weeks until they switch…

Most job seekers are too honest on the CV and during interviews.

Interviews are structured as if candidates are doing fancy algorithms every day, whereas you’re probably actually writing glue code 99% of the time and crammed CtCI just before the interview. The whole thing is fake, but companies started it.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#30

Post by mssundaram »

lsh123 wrote: post #20

Long long time ago in a galaxy far far away I used requirement in job postings “10 years of Java experience” (when Java was about 7 years old) as a filter: people who wrote me complaining about unrealistic requirement got interviews; people who sent resumes with 15 years of Java went into /dev/null

That's really lousy, I wouldn't have even bothered applying to that because I'd assume you had unrealistic expectations or no idea what you are talking about.
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