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We created a fake language to root out resume liars

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Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#41

Post by konjin »

fergie wrote: post #37

I find it particularly ironic that it has fallen to a Facebook group of Cold Fusion programmers to call out poor choices. Those of us who actually worked at 1st generation dotcoms know that absolutely nobody had any idea what they were doing, even at the "proper" ones, and things were moving so fast that you absolutely _had_ to fake it until you made it.

Yes but how else will you kick down the ladder once you made it?

FAAGs are where we put people who are really good at colouring within the box these days. It's pretty stunning how in 15 years it went from being a place where the best and brightest used to go a way to filter resumes.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#43

Post by ivalm »

selcuka wrote: post #39
ALittleLight wrote: post #10

This reminds me of an anecdote I read once, maybe in Liars Poker, about how lots of people applying to this hedge fund put "Chess" on their resume somewhere thinking it made them seem like a deep or strategic thinker. As it happened, at this hedge fund there worked a former Soviet master or grandmaster ranked player. And so, whenever interviewing any candidate who claimed great proficiency with chess on their resume,…

That's a bit unfair though. I wouldn't take "great proficiency with chess" on a resume as grandmaster level.

To be fair, lots of people colloquially claim to be good at chess but can’t even stumble though a proper opening. The difference between say a class-a player and a rando is massive and easy to tell.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#44

Post by codeflo »

bpodgursky wrote: post #27
nomel wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Meh. Claiming you know Perl, because you're super familiar with other scripting languages and can learn quickly? I've seen that backfires with people I interview. I have a limited time with each person. If you're saying you have experience but obviously don't, it means everything on your resume has to be considered as "possibly false". It brings a much more critical eye to that type of candidate, with lots of discu…

Yeah, I wouldn't personally do it, and I'd expect the candidate to crash-study before the interview enough to make it a plausible story. I just wouldn't consider it a * hard * disqualifier, if the truth came out.

I had a situation like this recently at a smaller company. Candidate claims years of expertise in X and Y. We have great X people, but would like to hire someone with deep Y knowledge. So we (more out of routine than any particular strategy) probe X in the interview. Turns out the candidate is beginner level at best, and also a bit arrogant about it. Would you in that situation believe the Y claims, that you can’t evaluate as deeply to begin with?

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#45

Post by 8ytecoder »

lsh123 wrote: post #40
mssundaram wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really lousy, I wouldn't have even bothered applying to that because I'd assume you had unrealistic expectations or no idea what you are talking about.

I was (and still am) interested in hiring people who would challenge manager, TL, ... and speak up if they think something is not right. That was just one of the filters.

I wouldn’t waste my time if I thought the hiring manager/recruiter is so incompetent. I’d have read that and bucketed the company as one of those looking to tick the boxes in years of experience.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#46

Post by xyzzy123 »

Puts wrote: post #38

I would say any one using external recruiters are setting themself up to employing liars. Searching for jobs it's incredibly frustrating talking to a person who for once can't answer any technical questions of what the job is about, but also just crossing of a bucket list to see if you are qualified to talk to another recruiter with a bucket list. Instead of competing with liars I've just stopped applying for jobs go…

One thing you have to watch out for is that sometimes it's not the candidate's fault.

Sometimes the recruiter will "tune up" a candidate's resume without them knowing it.

Yes, it's crazy.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#47

Post by dagw »

bpodgursky wrote: post #8
A12-B wrote: post #3

I admire resume liars. The job market isn't fair and you should do anything you can to get ahead. (Employers are going to pull tricks like this, so why not? Just be smart about it)

I think there's merit to this... within reason. Stretching a couple years of Java experience into a decade? Meh. Claiming you know Perl, because you're super familiar with other scripting languages and can learn quickly? Meh, probably. But since MOVA is, definitionally, fake, it's not like you have any idea * what * you're claiming to know. There's a level of BS here that isn't calculated, and I think that makes for…

As long as you remember which lies you told. I remember one interview where I asked "So, how much X do you know" and the guy I was interviewing honestly answered "Sorry, I've never used X". At which point I had to point out that he'd claimed to know X on his resume.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#48

Post by bryanrasmussen »

vagrantJin wrote: post #35

It baffles me why anyone would lie about the languages they know. Why. Always tell half truths, never whole lies. I live in a country where companies distrust former startup founders regardless of exit. So when a good opportunity cones around - people pretend to have been merely working for said startup instead of the guy running it. Thats a good lie.

Why does South Africa mistrust startup founders?

Denmark mistrusts people who've been consultants applying for full time employment, in my experience.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#49

Post by gogopuppygogo »

Puts wrote: post #38

I would say any one using external recruiters are setting themself up to employing liars. Searching for jobs it's incredibly frustrating talking to a person who for once can't answer any technical questions of what the job is about, but also just crossing of a bucket list to see if you are qualified to talk to another recruiter with a bucket list. Instead of competing with liars I've just stopped applying for jobs go…

Recruiters are sales people. Selling your services is what you are doing when you look for a job. So many people try to sell themselves to an employer that it’s a skill set to know how to navigate the process.

Some recruiters ignore the hard work and do a spray and pray approach to finding people jobs. Those are bad recruiters but usually untrained.

Good technical recruiters might even have an engineering background but like dealing with people more than machines.

Good recruiters have no floor and no ceiling to earning. They work agency recruiting and often make it to the top 1% of earners in America.

Recruiting is a big business.

Re: We created a fake language to root out resume liars

#50

Post by colechristensen »

selcuka wrote: post #39
ALittleLight wrote: post #10

This reminds me of an anecdote I read once, maybe in Liars Poker, about how lots of people applying to this hedge fund put "Chess" on their resume somewhere thinking it made them seem like a deep or strategic thinker. As it happened, at this hedge fund there worked a former Soviet master or grandmaster ranked player. And so, whenever interviewing any candidate who claimed great proficiency with chess on their resume,…

That's a bit unfair though. I wouldn't take "great proficiency with chess" on a resume as grandmaster level.

Nobody would think that though, a GM would be able to tell how bad you are lying.
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