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Why I did not go to jail (2014)

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Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#121

Post by phnofive »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #56
phnofive wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The enforcement and form of securities laws is beyond me, but I think Ben’s point is that Michelle went to prison for a crime she didn’t know she was committing and had checked [citation needed] with PwC. I agree it’s not arbitrary, but it does seem a bit unfair.

> I think Ben’s point is that Michelle went to prison for a crime she didn’t know she was committing and had checked [citation needed] with PwC. The article is written that way, but that view contradicts all the facts. As summarized in the other comments: - Really large numbers of executives were guilty of the same conduct described in the article. They didn't go to jail. - Michelle was not charged with anything rela…

Ha, got me as well. I mean, literally:

> Michelle ultimately served 3½ months in jail for her part in the other company’s stock option practice

So this is just a lie?

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#122

Post by baggy_trough »

croh wrote: post #120
istjohn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems there is more to this story than the author lets on. Michelle cheated on her personal taxes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7193033

I never like the whole sentiment about taxation. Why is the taxation so complicated with full of weird language and many complicated clauses ? Ideally it should be very simple, so any layman (even not educated) can understand it. Most people I see either scared and pay taxes without understanding anything or people always looking for cheat. People who understand whole process thorougly and proud tax-payers are rare.…

It’s that way because it benefits politicians - more loopholes to hand out favors.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#123

Post by andi999 »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #81
marcinzm wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We're not as smart as we think we are. We are, that's the problem. We find loopholes, we find edge cases, we bend rules to our benefit. Thus the bureaucracy must become ever more complicated to deal with our cleverness.

A loophole is just a more judgemental way of describing something you're allowed to do. Most discussion around the topic of tax loopholes revolves around entirely legal deductions. When you call something a loophole, all you're saying is "you're allowed to do this, but I personally thing that you should not be allowed to do this". Our tax system is a complicated, inscrutable mess because it was designed that way, not…

It also needs to be this way. Radical simple tax systems are usually considered unfair by the people. Like 10% of all you income needs to go to the state. Then people ask why do I have to pay 10% when the rich also only have to pay 10%, thats unfair. (Well you can say progression is ok, so this is then solved).

Here the more difficult one: if you tax income of companies, most will close down, so you need to allow tax deductions. Then what about tax deduction for IP fees? Of course nobody wants them, but IP is a big part of the US economy (worldwide) so should IP be protected, and expenses on IP be tax deductible?

After a while you probably end up with a similiar system as of today.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#124

Post by kubanczyk »

reddog wrote: post #84
tyingq wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with all of that, but there's also the idea that once the government decides you're guilty, they will find something. There's so many laws, and they are so complex, that's it's not hard for them to do so. So I'd add a little more to your advice to resign if asked to do something illegal. If your company, or industry, seems to be the new whipping post for some Federal agency, consider a new place. Assuming you…

As Beria, head of Stalin’s secret police said, “Show me the man and I will find you the crime.”

Actually I couldn't find any reliable source to attribute this quote (or something similar) to neither Beria, Andriey Wyszynski, Cardinal Richelieu, nor Quintilian.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#125

Post by hellbannedguy »

mr_cyborg wrote: post #62
jacquesm wrote: post #16

This is one of the more important bits to be periodically reposted on HN. Compliance with the law is not 'optional', and if you cross that line there is a fair chance that it will come back to bite you. Regulated industries, stock transactions (and options, as in this bit of startup history) all have their peculiarities and you need to realize that not all of these end up with the proverbial slap on the wrist if you…

> ask Martha Stewart (a billionaire) how her attempt to save $45K ended up to see why this is so Wasn’t Martha Stewart charged with obstructing an investigation and not actually securities fraud?

She handled it well, and came out with more offers/money.

I believe they got her on blatant insider trading.

My gripe is when the wealthy get caught doing a crime, they might do their heavily lawyered light sentence, and come home to a warm home, and a glass of Chardonnay.

A poor, or middle class guy, does his retribution, and it might destroy any semblance of the life he had before.

I’ve felt for awhile now sentences, and more important——fees/fines do to wrong doing should be tied tightly to income, and assets.

It kills me when a corporation, or a wealthy white collar individual get the same fine as the Landscaper, who rents.

Hell—-I would like to tie all societal fees/fines to income level. A rich guy gets a $600 traffic ticket, it’s dinner banter. A poor man get’s the same ticket, it could be rent.

I would would even tie vehicle registration, patent fees, etc. to income.

I can only wish though.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#126

Post by chii »

lenkite wrote: post #118

This is why I firmly believe that ALL law - every single piece of it should be written as a formal model with code so that assertions can be tested to see if something is illegal or not.

that's ideal. But what happens if there's a bug? Who decides such an interaction of the law is a bug?

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#127

Post by phonon »

toss1 wrote: post #97

This is not just for cases in which you are at risk of going to jail. I was once offered part of my compensation in stock, and in what I'm sure they thought was an act of generosity (and motivation to take more stock vs cash), it included a 25% discount on whatever stock I took at the end of the contract. I had a vague recollection about this stock backdating and other issues, so I tracked down an attorney with exten…

1. You seem to be over-reacting...if you got stock at a discount, at most you would pay tax on the attributed income from the difference between what you paid and FMV.

2. Employee Stock Purchase Plans where you buy company stock at a discount (tax free) are a thing https://www.plancorp.com/blog/the-untold-advantages-of-your-...

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#128

Post by tshanmu »

croh wrote: post #120
istjohn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems there is more to this story than the author lets on. Michelle cheated on her personal taxes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7193033

I never like the whole sentiment about taxation. Why is the taxation so complicated with full of weird language and many complicated clauses ? Ideally it should be very simple, so any layman (even not educated) can understand it. Most people I see either scared and pay taxes without understanding anything or people always looking for cheat. People who understand whole process thorougly and proud tax-payers are rare.…

Sorry for being pedantic: s/nobel/noble

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#129

Post by ganafagol »

croh wrote: post #120
istjohn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems there is more to this story than the author lets on. Michelle cheated on her personal taxes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7193033

I never like the whole sentiment about taxation. Why is the taxation so complicated with full of weird language and many complicated clauses ? Ideally it should be very simple, so any layman (even not educated) can understand it. Most people I see either scared and pay taxes without understanding anything or people always looking for cheat. People who understand whole process thorougly and proud tax-payers are rare.…

Lobbies. See: TurboTax.

Re: Why I did not go to jail (2014)

#130

Post by AlexTWithBeard »

croh wrote: post #120
istjohn wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems there is more to this story than the author lets on. Michelle cheated on her personal taxes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7193033

I never like the whole sentiment about taxation. Why is the taxation so complicated with full of weird language and many complicated clauses ? Ideally it should be very simple, so any layman (even not educated) can understand it. Most people I see either scared and pay taxes without understanding anything or people always looking for cheat. People who understand whole process thorougly and proud tax-payers are rare.…

Simple taxation is simple.

If you only have your paycheck as an income and living expenses as, well, expenses, then 1040 form can be filled under one hour.

Why is it not filled automatically is a good question, but irregardless of that no, it's not complicated.

Business expenses is when the fun starts - and rightly so, because pretty much every accounting rule was introduced to close some loophole.

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