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Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

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Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#781

Post by mr_woozy »

saalweachter wrote: post #220
jetpackjoe wrote: post #9

There are so many better crypto-currencies. Better for the environment because they use proof-of-stake, and not proof-of-work. Better for users because transactions are confirmed in seconds, not hours, and without the ridiculous fees that Bitcoin has. I think this shows how truly powerful the network effect, and being first to market is. Because without those things, Bitcoin would be nothing.

You know what actually bothers me the most about all crypto-currencies? None of them are actually money, like in the paper-or-gold-coin sense. They're all ledgers. The thing about money is that I can hand it to someone . Possession of the money is possession of the money and third parties don't need to get involved in every transaction. I can hand someone dollars and take a sandwich and walk away, transaction done. T…

>The problem with a digital currency, of course, is that when you hand someone a sequence of bits, they don't go away from you, so you can hand that same sequence of bits to another person.

I mean, you're not wrong, but this is where the cryptographic elements actually take place.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#782

Post by mr_woozy »

nprz wrote: post #696
jasonlaramburu wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto is 'backed' by the sunk cost of the energy used to mine it.

We can (and China already does) use energy that would otherwise be wasted to mine bitcoin: https://twitter.com/nic__carter/status/1369007894969122816?s...

Same here in Iceland where we mine 11% of the btc Network.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#783

Post by mr_woozy »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #690
TameAntelope wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're getting a lot of responses, because this is a pretty common complaint about crypto, and it taps into a great "WELL ACTUALLY" moment, because your concern is close enough to the "at least real money is backed by something" misconception (which, tbh, I'm sure you're aware of at this point if you weren't already). Fundamentally, what folks are trying to get to with crypto is a trust-less system, one that can oper…

Paper USD is backed by something though isn't it? It's backed by the US Govt. It's backed by the USG guaranteeing they will accept it. Crypto ain't even backed by that.

It's a misrepresentation, but you're on to something. Crypto is also backed in addition by all the other network participants willing to transact in crypto. which scales log with number of network participants.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#784

Post by w0de0 »

HeadsUpHigh wrote: post #766
w0de0 wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is also an argument for a gold standard. What is a society to do when collective debt can help? For example: existential war, economic turmoil. Do you contend that governments should never spend on credit? I contend that printing money may sometimes be a good idea. What society would undertake moonshots like DARPA... or going to the moon... if it could not invest with debt collateralized on a future generation's…

Spending on credit that you never pay is different. With a smart contract a government would have to release it's collateral. Now they can just keep the inflation up.

Ah, sure, the next generation pays, even as they generate even more debt themselves. I acknowledge it's a Ponzi scheme. But well managed, and expecting consistent growth in the productivity of our society over generations, the Ponzi scheme won't collapse.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#785

Post by jayd16 »

runarberg wrote: post #773
jayd16 wrote: post #768

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fear is that there will be a powerful in-group that has majority control, not just a single bad actor.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t that a problem shared with PoW?

I would argue that POW tends towards specialization of the hardware, congregating power in few hands, so yes. Yes it is.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#786

Post by mr_woozy »

jjnoakes wrote: post #677
melomal wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never been robbed for cash. I have had my bank account emptied multiple times though, recently too. When I hand cash over to someone, I know how much is leaving and coming back right then and there. When I fill out a payment form with my card details I'm handing over my entire balance into the ether. I could be sleeping and quietly money is leaving my bank account, which happened. So cash is king still. Plus it'…

I'm curious how your bank account is being emptied so often?

and what his account number and pin are!

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#787

Post by mr_woozy »

cableshaft wrote: post #638
saalweachter wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want a hipper, 21st-century term all the yutes love, cash is peer-to-peer . Crypto-currencies don't provide a way to transfer value peer-to-peer, online, just a third party that is (hopefully) neutral.

If you both have full node bitcoin wallets it's possible, just like how it worked in the first place. But having a full node on your computer takes up >350GB of space now, so I doubt there's too many people that still do that.

run a pruned node and it only takes up 3Gb

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#788

Post by bilater »

x3n0ph3n3 wrote: post #678
bilater wrote: post #529

People hating on Bitcoin's proof of work don't understand layer 2 solutions are on the way. Ultimately Bitcoin will be used as a final settlement layer and not for recording your pizza transactions while faster, lighter blockchains work with it.

I've been hearing this for years now. All of them have thusfar become a complete failure in both usability and reliability.

Not sure where are you looking but there are advances being made with every upgrade. On Ethereum as well as Bitcoin. With Ethereum in particular right now you have solutions like ZK and Optimistic rollups. We are taking concrete steps towards an eventual network of blockchains each talking to one another. These will both alleviate traffic and privacy concerns such as bots front running transactions on Uniswap.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#789

Post by zzzzzzzza »

silentsea90 wrote: post #420

What's bad for the planet is how decades of individual work output in money can be confiscated (by printing and inflation, not taxation) by the Government under the pretense of doing good. What's bizarre is that the Government is not affected by market forces while the rest of us plebs are forced to be efficient lest we lose to competition. Note: when I say confiscation, I mean money printing and not taxes (which wil…

the poor have debt, inflation is good for them. (in fact the federal reserve target rate of inflation is good for everyone in a utilitarian sense (whereas deflation is horrible))
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