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Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

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Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#671

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto is 'backed' by the sunk cost of the energy used to mine it.

ETH is backed by the distributed computer you can pay ETH to execute software on.

And what is the value of a distributed computer?

Turns out, virtually nil, because it's been around for 8 years and nobody is using it, because there is no real-world use case for contracts written as software.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#672
post #581
post #11

Bitcoin is an almost perfect exploitation of humanities fatal flaws (greed, unwillingness to acknowledge externalities - i.e. selfishness). It's that old SF-trope that the cause of many of humanity's biggest problems is humans.

You don't understand Bitcoin. It is a system to remove human greed from the equation. However, currently we are in the monetization stage. People will get rich. Greed will prevail and it jump starts the system. The beauty of Bitcoin is that no human can increase supply to address short-term interests, like central banks can. The energy is not wasted. To the contrary, it is used to ensure that the supply is distribute…

If you want a resource that's limited and can't be created by central banks, why not use something like Gold/Silver like we used to? While not going trying to debate on whether we should or should not use a limited resource as currency, but if we did Bitcoin seems like a wasteful thing to use.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#673

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thing about money is that I can hand it to someone. Honestly don’t know if you’re trolling or just old. I used paper money once last year. To buy weed. Because the federal government has determined I am not responsible enough to use or own weed. No one I know uses physical cash anymore. We’re moving away from physical items where possible, not toward it. I would rather have my currency on a public DLT than cont…

I've never been robbed for cash. I have had my bank account emptied multiple times though, recently too. When I hand cash over to someone, I know how much is leaving and coming back right then and there. When I fill out a payment form with my card details I'm handing over my entire balance into the ether. I could be sleeping and quietly money is leaving my bank account, which happened. So cash is king still. Plus it'…

You're aware that your experiences are not universal though, yes? Anecdotally, I know far more people who have been mugged than had their accounts zeroed out. I actually know more people who have been passed counterfeit money than have had their accounts zeroed as well!

It's also hard to have silverfish eat your bank account balance, or have your credit card account catch fire and disappear.

https://pestrepublic.com/do-silverfish-eat-money-how-to-keep...

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#674

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ETH is backed by the distributed computer you can pay ETH to execute software on.

And what is the value of a distributed computer? Turns out, virtually nil, because it's been around for 8 years and nobody is using it, because there is no real-world use case for contracts written as software.

> it's been around for 8 years and nobody is using it

That's laughably wrong, go look up how much revenue the Ethereum network is bringing in with smart contract fees.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#675
post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Was it? I know a couple books[1] that suggest life prior to the agricultural revolution wasn't nearly as famine-stricken as we tend to think it was. These books claim hunter gatherers were quite proficient at finding enough sustenance. Obviously starvation was still possible and likely, but was it the primary cause of death? Is there some more evidence that humans were suffering from starvation before agriculture? Wo…

That same book claims that the agricultural revolution was responsible for human specialization. We were able to feed larger families/tribes and develop non-food related skills. Without agriculture, those extra people would've died aka "thin out" as you mentioned.

Agriculture encourages large families since children can help out in the field. Meanwhile with a hunter gatherer lifestyle the amount of food that can be acquired is not limited by labor but rather by the local environment. The effect is that you have lots of people doing backbreaking work every day.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With bitcoin, you are paying for security. I know if I send you a bitcoin transaction there is a high probability it won't be reverted in our lifetime, possibly ever. I'm not a maxi but these new projects don't have that guarantee yet; likely they never will.

Proof of stake crypto currencies are just as secure.

No, if Bitcoin was PoS, Mt Gox would bail themselves out and govern Bitcoin to this day. Early on, Mt Gox was responsible for over 80% of all economic activity on the Bitcoin network, and was by far the dominant holder of coins.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#677

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thing about money is that I can hand it to someone. Honestly don’t know if you’re trolling or just old. I used paper money once last year. To buy weed. Because the federal government has determined I am not responsible enough to use or own weed. No one I know uses physical cash anymore. We’re moving away from physical items where possible, not toward it. I would rather have my currency on a public DLT than cont…

I've never been robbed for cash. I have had my bank account emptied multiple times though, recently too. When I hand cash over to someone, I know how much is leaving and coming back right then and there. When I fill out a payment form with my card details I'm handing over my entire balance into the ether. I could be sleeping and quietly money is leaving my bank account, which happened. So cash is king still. Plus it'…

I'm curious how your bank account is being emptied so often?

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#678

People hating on Bitcoin's proof of work don't understand layer 2 solutions are on the way. Ultimately Bitcoin will be used as a final settlement layer and not for recording your pizza transactions while faster, lighter blockchains work with it.

I've been hearing this for years now. All of them have thusfar become a complete failure in both usability and reliability.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another armchair cryptographer on HN who has no idea what they're talking about... somehow this is acceptable when it comes to Bitcoin. I feel like I'm being charitable here but what exists are other cryptocurrencies which trade-off security and/or decentralization in favor of some other properties. Regarding proof-of-stake for example, I'll defer to this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25007874

I'm not even an amateur cryptographer, let alone an armchair one. I'm just someone who sees the failed promises made by Bitcoin (fast, cheap transactions) against the horrendous damage it is causing the environment. There has to be a better way.

I appreciate your honesty.

Fast and cheap transactions have been around since long before Bitcoin. Bitcoin's innovation was to make those possible without a trusted centralized intermediary. Therefore, decentralization and security are arguably the most important properties when evaluating cryptocurrencies. And Bitcoin is king on that front. Cryptocurrencies that promise faster, cheaper or "more energy efficient" transactions pretty much always have to compromise on that.

But as an end user, you probably wouldn't know that. That's why I'm frustrated with people who authoritatively claim things like "there are so many better crypto-currencies" while not disclosing that they're merely commenting from a "user experience" point of view.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#680
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Military force and law enforcement provide solutions for consensus across great many domains, so they're marginally near-free to use for consensus in any single area of interest. You could say, they are consensus factored out and made incarnate. Conversely, if all money suddenly become Bitcoin, military force and police would still be needed, in mostly the same amount they are today.

It's odd to me that people think Bitcoin can be free of "force" long term. Bad guys can point a gun at your head and demand you login into Coinbase to transfer coins to them. What happens if the government makes Microsoft give them admin accounts to the Bitcoin repo? What happens if there is a fork and China doesn't like it and prohibits miners from adopting it? BTC is way more susceptible to traditional military and…

I grant the other points, but if the government took over the bitcoin repo and changed it, why wouldn't people just keep using the old version of the software?
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