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Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

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Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#561

Post by s1artibartfast »

acruns wrote: post #374

At what point did Bill become an expert on everything? It's cute that he takes his little bag of books and secluded himself in his she-shed and reads. But honestly, why do we now trust him to be an expert on so many subjects when he hasn't even gotten an undergraduate degree in anything, let alone spent decades studying a field. I can't tell you how many books I have read by experts that later turned out to completel…

I'm not sure anyone is being swayed by Bill Gate's opinion. Who is pushing the idea that he is an expert, or that expertise is even required to have an opinion?

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#562

Post by deeeeplearning »

rank0 wrote: post #498
jk7tarYZAQNpTQa wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can humans not be the cause humanity's biggest problems? That's a pretty good indicator of a civilization's state. For an advanced one, the answer to your question would be "it's nowhere near the top worries". All human-made horrors (war, climate change, etc.) would be left far behind. If we were as smart as we think we are, our biggest problems would be rogue asteroids, solar storms and aggressive aliens, not…

I'm not sure I buy that. There's not any proof that a more advanced civilization exists. Even if we assume that one does exist, why does it follow that they are immune to war, oppression, power struggles etc? The only data point we have suggests otherwise. Or maybe the aliens are all holding hands in a circle singing kumbayah?

Imagine you are an advanced civ with weapons hardly imaginable to current humans. Anti-Matter bombs, GRB strength energy weapons, etc, who even knows what is possible. With weapons like that even a run of the mill rogue political group, terrorist or whoever could probably trivially destroy an entire planet. It stands to reason that if they are able to continue to exist as some kind of multi-planetary species they have figured out a way to avoid killing themselves.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#563

Post by dmingod666 »

kbenson wrote: post #452
la_fayette wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think understanding bitcoin from a systems point of view is of great value. Although proof of work is problematic, the idea and manifestation of a censorship resisten electronic monetary system is just amazing. Bitcoin is actually working for more than 10 years... There are alternatives to PoW, e.g. ethereum 2.0, let's see if this works and than judge again...

> censorship resisten electronic monetary system I feel sorry for anyone that expects bitcoin to actually be anonymous. Given that we can use statistics and timing to determine the memory contents and instructions run on different cores in a CPU, anyone that uses a currency that keeps public global transaction log and thinks they can anonymize themselves by just mixing their money in a pool is in for a rude awakening…

We would like to recruit your guidance in our search for Satoshi. Thanks in advance.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#564

Post by hannasanarion »

dmingod666 wrote: post #542
hannasanarion wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is that those things are actually useful. Also, bitcoin is fiat.

Correct, but, it is finite and it cannot be inflated away from you.

Deflationary currency is useless currency. There is a reason that every deflationary period in modern monetary history was immediately followed by a catastrophic depression.

Contrary to the dollar-sign-eyed bitcoin hacks, the purpose of money is to be exchanged for goods and services, not to sit in an account forever while you watch numbers go up.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#565

Post by mancerayder »

c-linkage wrote: post #544
mancerayder wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a bitcoin fanboy, but that's a bit strong a statement. What is "greed" versus motivation for innovation? Is innovation rewarded with (taxed, regulated) wealth greed, and if so, is that "bad"? And if it creates Teslas and rockets that land, and robots on Mars that last a year or more analyzing samples, is it a fatal flaw? Some more questions... So let's say BTC is greed - the many financial instruments out there,…

I feel that comments like this are a disservice to HN, for while the comment attempts to sound erudite and logical, it is simply moral relativism in disguise. "Greed" is neither good nor bad, but instead it is a pathological optimization. Optimizing for profit, by definition, is an "unwillingness to acknowledge externalities", as stated by the GP. Optimizing for profit resulted in many bad situations for Americans (s…

Your response and charges of moral relativism are longer than the comment you're replying to. It's as if you're liberally reading into motivations and even psychology, in order to make your point about externalities.

Don't tell people what their motivations are. The original comment talked about greed, my comment questions our definitions of greed.

Edit: Can't you just reply and make a point about externalities instead of being essentially passive-aggressive?

> Finally, a suggestion to all: avoid acronyms, or at least spell them out on first use. It's highly likely that "SF" meant "Science Fiction" and not "San Fransisco". Knowing the correct definition of an acronym can help avoid embarrassing situations.

Wowzers. How about you design the guidelines for conversations, and we can defer to you if there's ever any ambiguity.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#566

Post by toomim »

olalonde wrote: post #543
jetpackjoe wrote: post #9

There are so many better crypto-currencies. Better for the environment because they use proof-of-stake, and not proof-of-work. Better for users because transactions are confirmed in seconds, not hours, and without the ridiculous fees that Bitcoin has. I think this shows how truly powerful the network effect, and being first to market is. Because without those things, Bitcoin would be nothing.

Another armchair cryptographer on HN who has no idea what they're talking about... somehow this is acceptable when it comes to Bitcoin. I feel like I'm being charitable here but what exists are other cryptocurrencies which trade-off security and/or decentralization in favor of some other properties. Regarding proof-of-stake for example, I'll defer to this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25007874

This attitude that people who disagree with you are stupid or don't know cryptography about is part of the problem, and why people still buy into BTC when there are technologically far-superior coins out there.

So you just demonstrated the problem that the OP was talking about.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#567

Post by ethagnawl »

throwaway20875 wrote: post #131
shiado wrote: post #62

The irony is that the exact society destabilizing grand visions of the future billionaires advocate for are some of the main drivers behind people embracing Bitcoin. If you push a "you own nothing" WEF approved dystopian tech oligarch reality don't be surprised when people adopt an asset that cannot be confiscated by the government.

Exactly this. Bitcoin is the result of the gross power imbalances present in society. It's ironic that those on the heavier end of the scale, like Gates, are attacking Bitcoin with the cudgel of environmental policy. Rather than fix the power imbalances that are the root cause of his supposed gripe, Gates is advocating for the status quo enjoyed by him and his contemporaries.

> The primary goals of the [Gates] foundation are to enhance healthcare and reduce extreme poverty across the globe, and to expand educational opportunities and access to information technology in the U.S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_%26_Melinda_Gates_Foundat...

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#568

Post by silentsea90 »

frankbreetz wrote: post #540
silentsea90 wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxation will not disappear in a crypto world, and that's how government would fund themselves. Societal wealth will continue in the form of roads, police, healthcare etc. Govt. will have to be resourceful about how it spends its tax earnings. The key difference is that Government can't go money printer brr whenever tax revenues aren't enough simply because they don't allocate resources efficiently. Tax rates in the…

SF County can't print money, only the federal government can. As far as I know California receives the least amount of federal tax benefits. They pay more then they recieve

Yes, I am aware of SF county being unable to print (only the central bank can). The point I am making is that this is an instance of wasteful expenditure that would be expensive in a world where nations lose control over currency and are operating on a tight budget that enforces skin in the game and discipline.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#570

Post by rorykoehler »

rank0 wrote: post #498
jk7tarYZAQNpTQa wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can humans not be the cause humanity's biggest problems? That's a pretty good indicator of a civilization's state. For an advanced one, the answer to your question would be "it's nowhere near the top worries". All human-made horrors (war, climate change, etc.) would be left far behind. If we were as smart as we think we are, our biggest problems would be rogue asteroids, solar storms and aggressive aliens, not…

I'm not sure I buy that. There's not any proof that a more advanced civilization exists. Even if we assume that one does exist, why does it follow that they are immune to war, oppression, power struggles etc? The only data point we have suggests otherwise. Or maybe the aliens are all holding hands in a circle singing kumbayah?

We have more data points in our imagination and it isn’t hard to imagine a more advanced peaceful civilisation.
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